Communiqué From SSPX On Meeting With Cardinal Ladaria and Father Pagliarani

The Palace of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith in Rome

Communiqué from the General House of the Society of Saint Pius X concerning the Nov. 22, 2018 meeting between Cardinal Ladaria and Fr. Pagliarani

On Thursday, November 22, 2018, Fr. David Pagliarani, Superior General of the Society of Saint Pius X, traveled to Rome at the invitation of Cardinal Luis Ladaria Ferrer, Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. He was accompanied by Fr. Emmanuel du Chalard. Cardinal Ladaria was assisted by Archbishop Guido Pozzo, Secretary of the Pontifical Commission Ecclesia Dei.

The meeting took place in the offices of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, from 4:30 p.m. to 6:30 p.m. Its purpose was to allow Cardinal Ladaria and Fr. Pagliarani to meet for the first time and together to take stock of the relations between the Holy See and the Society of Saint Pius X since the election of its new Superior General last July.

During the meeting with the Roman authorities, it was recalled that the fundamental problem is actually doctrinal, and neither the Society nor Rome can escape this fact. Because of this irreducible doctrinal divergence, for the past seven years no attempt to compose a draft of a doctrinal statement acceptable to both parties has succeeded. This is why the doctrinal question remains absolutely essential.

The Holy See says the same when it solemnly declares that no canonical status can be established for the Society until after the signing of a doctrinal document.

Therefore, everything impels the Society to resume theological discussions with the awareness that the Good Lord does not necessarily ask the Society to convince its interlocutors, but rather to bear unconditional witness to the faith in the sight of the Church.

The future of the Society is in the hands of Providence and the Most Blessed Virgin Mary, as is demonstrated by its whole history, from the Society's foundation to this day.

The members of the Society want nothing else but to serve the Church and to cooperate effectively in her regeneration, to the point of giving their lives for her triumph if necessary. But they can choose neither the manner, nor the terms, nor the moment of what belongs to God alone.

Menzingen, November 23, 2018

FSSPX News....

AMDG

Cardinal Müller Acknowledges Pope's Unjust Dismissal of His Men -- SSPX Reconciliation Needs More Time -- Dismisses the Dubia as "Ideological"

A "deeper reconciliation is needed, not just the signing of a document" - deaconess ordination "impossible".

Vatican City (kath.net/ KAP)  According to Cardinal Gerhard Ludwig Müller, an agreement between the traditionalist Society of St. Pius X and the Vatican is not yet within reach."This takes time," said the Prefect of the Roman Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, according to Catholic broadcaster EWTN. What is needed is a "deeper reconciliation, not just the signing of a document." Those who wish to be Catholic must accept, among other things, the councils and other ecclesiastical doctrine as well as the "hierarchical communion with the local bishop, the communion of all bishops and the Holy Father". [Apparently, they will be expected to check their reason. Really, considering that most of the world's bishops don't respect the Councils, how can they expect that level of obedience to the SSPX?]

On the question about the liturgical form in the course of the Second Vatican Council (1962-1965), Müller said that it was a Catholic concept that the pope and synods had the right and the duty to redesign the "external form of the liturgy". "The substance of the liturgy is given by revelation and can not be changed by anyone," he added. The interview was published on Thursday as a video on the Internet; On Saturday written extracts appeared in social networks.

With regard to a study commission on deaconesses in the history of the Church set up by Pope Francis, Müller said that the pope did not refer to the three-level Catholic consecration of the deacon, priest and bishop. It was about women who had worked in the early church as assistants in the baptism of women or in charitable tasks.

The Cardinal concluded that a diaconal consecration is "impossible". "This will not happen," says Müller. Moreover, this is not necessary either. Today, women in the church are in higher positions of responsibility than the deaconesses of antiquity.

Unusually open criticism was exercised by the Cardinal on the alleged dismissal by the Pope of three members of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. The move had become known at the end of 2016 and was said to be against Müller's wishes. He said in the interview that this story was true. He wanted "a better treatment of our staff at the Holy See." One should not only talk about the social doctrine, but also respect it, according to the Cardinal.

Müller put the staff changes in the arena of the "old courtly etiquette," which Francis himself has criticized. Employees could only be dismissed if they made a mistake or did not fulfill the requirements of legal faith, integrity, and material competence. 

Trans: Tancred vekron99@hotmail.com

AMDG

SSPX Spokesman Confirms: "No Date for Reconciliation"

(Paris) Father Alain Lorans, spokesman for the Priestly Fraternity of St. Pius X. in France, according to AFP press agency, said: "Dialogue continues without timetable." There is no specific date.  The FSSPX spokesman thus confirms what Guido Pozzo, the secretary of the Pontifical Commission, Ecclesia Dei, and the Vatican representativr for talks with the Society, said yesterday in an interview with Rome Reports.

Both sides thus indirectly denied speculation that the erection of the Society as a personal prelature could be announced by Pope Francis tomorrow, May 13, the 100th anniversary of the first apparition of the Virgin Mary in Fatima.

Archbishop Pozzo said yesterday that Monsignor Fellay would first have to sign the doctrinal preamble before the canonical recognition could be passed as a personal prelature.

In the end, seven of the Society's French district and three heads of aligned religious communities had very clearly spoken out against an agreement with Rome at the present time. AFP therefore headlined yesterday: "The Lefebvrian integralists between the road to Rome and an internal crisis."

Text: Giuseppe Nardi
Image: AFP (screenshot)
Trans: Tancred vekron99@hotmail.com
AMDG

Guido Pozzo: "Lefebvrians" Have to Sign Doctrinal Declaration

(Rome) In an interview with Rome Reports, Archbishop Guido Pozzo, the Secretary of the Pontifical Commission, Ecclesia Dei, spoke of the canonical recognition of the Priestly Society of St. Pius X. There is "no date for reconciliation with the Lefebvrians", but the spirit is "constructive," according to Rome reports, referring to the Archbishop.

Monsignor Pozzo said:

"The reconciliation will occur when Monsignor Fellay formally adheres to the doctrinal declaration that the Holy See presented to him. This is also the necessary condition to then proceed to the institutional regularization with the creation of a personal prelature. I have noticed that there is not a controversial spirit but constructive. The different points of view or opinions we have on some issues do not necessarily need to lead to division, but to a mutual enrichment. I have realized that it is a priority for them to overcome this fracture with the Holy See. For them, it's a priority over other concerns."

Prior to the establishment of the new Personal Prelature, the Vatican would consult the bishops' conferences of the countries in which the Society currently operates. Archbishop Pozzo stated that the "key to reconciliation" was a better understanding of the Second Vatican Council. The misinterpretations that some theologians, intellectuals, and media have promoted would have led to breaches like with the Lefebvrians.

The Archbishop also recalled the criticism of Pope Benedict XVI. at a "hermeneutics of rupture". It was a false interpretation to see the Council as symbolic of a break with the doctrine of the Church which preceded it. This misinterpretation produces a "climate of conflict, confusion and uncertainty" about the interpretation of the Council, which is also the "root of the criticism and difficulties raised by the Priestly Fraternity of St. Pius X," said Pozzo.

AMDG

What Rome Expects of the Society of Pius X -- Interview of Archbishop Guido Pozzo

Archbishop Guido Pozzo (Ecclesia Dei) on the "Preconditions" for the
canonical recognition of the Society with Rome

(Rome) What Rome expects from the Society of St. Pius X (SSPX) said Curial Archbishop Guido Pozzo, Secretary of the Pontifical Commission Ecclesia Dei . The interview was held by Luca Marcolivio for the press Zenit .

About two weeks ago Bishop Bernard Fellay, Superior General of the SSPX was received by Pope Francis at the Vatican. The private audience caused quite a stir since it is known that Francis has no strong sympathies for  tradition.

New "Doctrinal Preamble"?

Curial Archbishop Pozzo described the meeting as "useful" on the "path" of the SSPX,  "towards a full reconciliation" that "will be made a canonical recognition of the institute."  Currently it is "primarily" about creating a more trusting and respectful air, "to overcome  hardening and distrust".

When asked which "basic requirements" Rome is urging of the SSPX for recognition, Pozzo said that the SSPX would submit a "doctrinal statement" which "at the appropriate moment," is one that will contain all the "essential and necessary points". Pozzo described such points as: "the approval of the creed, the sacramental bond and hierarchical communion with the Roman Pontiff, the head of the episcopal college united with him."

Specifically the Curial Archbishop explained, "that the SSPX is asked to recognize that only the Magisterium of the Church is entrusted with the preservation, defense and interpretation of the deposit of faith, and the Magisterium is not higher than the Word of God, but this serves only to hand down doctrine." The supreme Magisterium is the "authentic interpreter" even of  the previous texts of the Magisterium  "in the light of the everlasting tradition," including those of the Second Vatican Council. So there is no place for "opposing novelties", but only for a deeper understanding of the Depositum fidei, "always in the same doctrine, the same sense and in the same tradition."

Discussions have "led to a significant clarification" of Vatican II

As for the Second Vatican Council, the trodden path of the "recent years" have "led to a significant clarification," said Pozzo. "The 2nd Vatican Council can only be understood in the context of the entire tradition of the Church and her constant magisterium in an appropriate manner."  In addition, a different weighting and thus binding of each document is observed. The person in charge of Ecclesia Dei emphasized that there even after "the canonical recognition" the conciliar documents can continue to be discussed. The aim of the "discussion, deepening" must be to "avoid any misunderstandings and contradictions" that "to our knowledge are currently spread throughout the Church".

Outstanding issues such as religious freedom, ecumenism are not "an obstacle to recognition"

The open questions about the relationship between church and state, freedom of religion, practice of ecumenism and inter-religious dialogue as well as "some aspects of liturgical reform and their actual use" would "be discussed and remain points to be clarified." but however, "they are not an obstacle for the canonical and legal recognition" of the SSPX.

Text: Giuseppe Nardi
Image: La Croix (Screenshot)

Trans: Tancred vekron99@hotmail.com

Link to Katholisches...

AMDG

SSPX Disagreements With Vatican II Are No Obstacle

Edit: this is the deal breaker, which was denied to the Society lay time documents were brought to them for signing.

[Rorate Caeli] Abp. Pozzo, Secretary of the Pontifical Commission Ecclesia Dei, spoke to the semi-official daily of the French episcopate, La Croix, on the relations between the Holy See and the Society of St. Pius X, and among other relevant things said the following:

"The difficulties raised by the SSPX regarding Church-State relations and religious freedom,the practice of ecumenism, and the dialogue with non-Christian religions, of certain aspects of the liturgical reform, and of its concrete application, remain the object of discussion and clarification, Abp. Pozzo [of the Pontifical Commission Ecclesia Dei] added, but they are not an obstacle for the canonical and legal recognition of the SSPX."

http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2016/04/main-vatican-ecclesia-dei-official.html?m=1

Bishop Fellay and Pope Francis Met in Vatican This Weekend

Vatican Press Office vice-director Burke, announced on Monday that a meeting took place in the Casa Santa Marta on Saturday, April 2, between Pope Francis and the Superior General of the Society of St. Pius X.

We went to the Vatican information site and couldn't find it.  The Vatican  news website is the worst website ever made, but fortunately we have Rorate Caeli.

Rorate says that they, "learned it was a very positive meeting."

Update:  Official SSPX Statement.

"We Will Always Reply to Those Who Question Us About the Reasons For Our Fidelity to Tradition"

 

October 3, 2014 16:02 |  

Cardinal and Bishop Fellay Müller

(Menzingen)  Bishop Bernard Fellay, Superior General of the Priestly Fraternity of St. Pius X (SSPX) has today addressed the press service of the SSPX  about the meeting on 23 September 2014, the Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Gerhard Ludwig Cardinal Müller. In some ways there is nothing new to report, "the doctrinal differences" would continue, says  Fellay. This had already emerged in the context of formal talks between the SSPX theologians and a delegation of the CDF in the years 2009-2011, which led to the rejection on the part of the SSPX of   the signing of the doctrinal preamble.

At the same time the situation had also changed. So there is a new pope and a new Prefect of the Congregation. The conclusion of the talk  two and a half weeks ago makes it clear "that neither they nor we want a break in relations". Both sides also insisted  "on the fact that the doctrinal issues must be resolved before a canonical recognition". Because of the ambiguities in the doctrinal preamble it is impossible for the SSPX, however, to sign.

Fellay also pointed to the "intensification of the Church Crisis"t, which was initiated by Walter Cardinal Kasper. To the concerns expressed by a number of cardinals in criticism of Kasper Fellay said: "Since the criticism of the two Cardinals Ottaviani and Bacci in the Short Critical Examination of the New Ordo Missæ in 1969, Rome has never seen the like. But what has not changed is that the Roman authorities take no account of our criticisms of the Council, because they seem to them secondary or even to be illusory in view of the acute problems that arise in the Church today. These leaders recognize the crisis, which has rocked the Church up to the highest level  - even among the cardinals. But they do not see that the Council could be the disproportionate or even the main cause of this crisis. "

Cardinal Kasper had proposed in his speech on the occasion of the consistory in February, "to do again what has already been done at the Council, namely to reaffirm Catholic doctrine, but at the same time,  offer an opening for the care of souls." This idea confirmed by the Cardinal is more widespread, such as in interviews: "He recalled that the doctrine could not change in the theory, but he also introduces the idea that there would be situations in concrete reality, where the doctrine can not be applied." For the SSPX Kasper is not the cause of this evil: "For our part we accuse  the council of making this artificial distinction between doctrine and pastoral care before, because the care of souls must necessarily flow from  doctrine. Due to various openings in the pastoral area, major changes were introduced in the Church and  her teaching was affected thereby.  This took place during and after the Council, and we denounce the same strategy, which today is applied to marriage morality. "Nevertheless, it was in the Conciliar texts," where there were major changes" in terms of doctrine, such as religious freedom, ecumenism and collegiality .

As to the question whether the recent discussions were good,   the dialogue from 2009 to 2011 have brought nothing, Fellay said, but that they wanted to follow the example of the founder of the Society, Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, "who has never refused the invitations the Roman authorities. We always reply to those who question us about the reasons of our faith. We can not escape this obligation, and we do it in the spirit and with the commitments that have been defined by the last General Chapter. "Tradition is the answer to the current crisis," said the Superior General.

Text: Benedict M. Buerger
Image: forum Lefebvristes.fr

Fellay and Müller: Doctrinal Preamble Versus Dispute on Grace 2.0

Bishop Bernard Fellay and Cardinal Gerhard Muller

Edit: I think the important thing here is that no Preamble was offered for signature.  We'll try to post the link as soon as it appears.

(Berlin) On 23 September, a meeting between the head of the CDF and the Fraternity of St. Pius X was held in Rome, including in the first place Gerhard Müller as Cardinal Prefect of the Congregation for Doctrine and the Faith and Bishop Bernard Fellay as Superior General of the SSPX. For this reason Clement Victor Oldendorf published  the article "Doctrinal Preamble versus Grace Dispute 2.0" at Kath.news.

There  was some censoring of the document arbitrarily undertaken and subsequently  it was "too spicy" and this was supposedly justified by "too few formulations true to pope and Rome."  The author then wished  the deletion of the essay, which had been  dismissed as "speculation".

On September 27 after this call Kathnews.de took the contribution offline..

Katholisches.info has now published, with the consent of the author, the full post in an unabridged version.

.

Doctrinal Preamble Versus Grace Dispute 2.0

by Clement Victor Oldendorf

Since the beginning of September   information on September 21, 2014  has been circulating that there will be a meeting between the Prefect of the CDF, Cardinal Gerhard Müller, and the Superior General of the Priestly Fraternity of St. Pius X, Bishop Bernard Fellay. The forecasts were rather skeptical and hesitant, with what appeared to be by no means irrational pessimism even from the time when he was Bishop of Regensburg in the face of Mueller's relevant statements. So it was expected, for example, Müller would require Fellay, but without ifs and buts, to accept the last submitted version of the so-called Doctrinal Preamble. Something Fellay had previously excluded, after he was confronted in 2012 with a complete surprise in its text version.

Message of Vatican Radio

For a few hours now a message has appeared on the website of Vatican Radio,   that the encounter did not take place on Sunday, but  took place today and lasted two hours: Add link to the message of Vatican Radio!

This text no longer mentions the Doctrinal Preamble. An insistence on the adoption of its final version would probably also proven to be an impasse and conceived as a deliberate provocation on the part of Rome if the contacts collapsed. 

Incomplete Theological Thinking Then and Now

If you read today's news from Radio Vatican, it suggests rather a more open modus vivendi to recognize the parallels to be the "solution" in the so-called disputes on grace  of the 16th and early 17th century. At that time,   theologians of the Jesuit and the Dominican orders were disputing over questions of the doctrine of grace, namely about the right relationship between divine grace and human participation in the process of justification, and they accused each other of being heretics. In 1607, Pope Paul V ruled that everyone should provisionally retain his theological position and collect arguments to refute the other side, but that it was forbidden to denounce each other. The Apostolic See will, as it was then be called to decide the question of content   "soon". To date, no Pope has decided this question. Actually, this is a fine example that Pope Francis has repeatedly called for "unfinished, theological thinking" in the church already has a long established tradition.

Grace dispute 2.0 Appeared in 2009 as a Thought Experiment

If it were, now here come to a recurrence of such, as it were open solution, it is tempting to recall   interesting and little-known details from the year 2009. At that time, after Benedict XVI. had just withdrawn the Decree of Excommunication on the original four auxiliary bishops of the SSPX in January,  Fellay continued ordinations in the summer at Zaitzkofen, on the territory of the Diocese of Regensburg, which increased media interest.

Many were present at the ceremony, journalists of various newspapers, from radio and television and almost besieged the  celebrations with cameras and microphones. Subsequently, the reporters were invited to a press conference.This allowed each of the media representatives asked a question of the bishop. Almost all the questions were just about the unspeakable Holocaust remarks of his confrere [Bishop] Richard Williamson. However, one journalist present for the Wiener Zeitung set a question that was completely out of this frame. 

Namely, he broached   the historical dispute on grace just outlined here and asked Fellay, if there were not possibly an analogous result could be in the best solution for the doctrinal disputations about Vatican II between Rome and the Society. After an initial surprise, he wasn't being asked about  gas chambers or Williamson, the Superior General of this idea described then these corresponding things as very clever and interesting and confirmed that such a solution could actually be possible.

Introduction: Giuseppe Nardi
image: SSPX / Wikicommons

Trans: Tancred vekron99@hotmail.com

Link to Katholisches...

AMDG

Talks Between Rome and the SSPX Resume

Bishop Fellay in Rome

(Rome) In the late morning of the day the meeting between  the Prefect of the Congregation for Doctrine and the Faith,  Cardinal Gerhard Müller and the Superior General of the SSPX, Bishop Fellay, was held in Rome. For the first time Cardinal Müller and Bishop Fellay had personally met since the former Bishop of Regensburg had been appointed early summer 2012 to be Prefect of the CDF. 

Since the election of Pope Francis there have been no lack of voices that take a hard line in Rome  and say  they  want the bishops and priests of the SSPX  to be excommunicated. Pope Francis did not follow this "advice". The talks between the SSPX and Rome were resumed today instead.

The statement published by the Vatican press office did not appear  in different languages, but in German. The following translation leans closely as possible to the relevant Italian text.

"On the morning of Tuesday 23 September from 11 am to 1 pm, a cordial meeting took place at the premises of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, between Cardinal Gerhard Ludwig Muller, prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and Bishop Bernard Fellay, superior general of the Society of St. Pius X. The meeting was also attended by Archbishops Luis Francisco Ladaria Ferrer, S.I., secretary of the same Congregation, Joseph Augustine Di Noia, O.P., adjunct secretary and Guido Pozzo, secretary of the Pontifical Commission Ecclesia Dei, along with two assistants from the Society of St. Pius X, Rev. Niklaus Pfluger and Rev. Alain-Marc Nély.

During the meeting, various problems of a doctrinal and canonical nature were examined, and it was decided to proceed gradually and over a reasonable period of time in order to overcome difficulties and with a view to the envisioned full reconciliation.

Two aspects of the Declaration catches your eye. First, the emphasis that the encounter in a "warm climate" was held. A formulation that sounds very strong in German translation, in the flowery Italian language however, still would allow some increase of opportunities, but overall indicated a positive indication. Secondly, the content of the last sentence is most important, which shows that the direct communication between Rome and Econe are open again. That did not seem self-evident recently. 

The official statement of the General House of the SSPX in Menzingen largely corresponds to the wording of the Vatican. In addition, next to the "doctrinal and canonical problems" it said that the "current situation of the Church" was addressed. The explanation of the SSPX is reluctant to state a desired objective and speaks of "continuing to clarify the remaining controversial points."

A Brief Review

In spring 2012, the impression was generally accepted in the months previous on the part of the SSPX,  the impression that Rome accepted the arguments put forward in requests for changes to the "Doctrinal Preamble", whose adoption should form the basis for the canonical recognition. Then in May the General Assembly of the Congregation came together and annulled the results obtained. On June 13, 2012, Bishop Fellay thought to travel to Rome and return with the canonical recognition of the SSPX. Instead, it was Cardinal William Levada,  then Prefect of the CDF who didn't present the agreed text of the Doctrinal Preamble, but  the original version again, before the talks began. An unacceptable situation, which ended with an inconclusive departure of the Superior General of the SSPX. Because the turnaround came so unexpectedly, Bishop Fellay asked a few days later, expressly and in writing with Benedict XVI. according to whether it really is also the desire of the Pope. As this was confirmed on June 30, there was a hiatus. 

Some circles in Rome wanted to pass the buck to  the SSPX  for the failure of the talks and wanted from Bishop Fellay a written negative answer to the "preamble". When the SSPX, who felt betrayed in their view, was not to fall into this trap,  yet in the meantime there came into office, and thus not concerned with the new faith discussions, Müller, Prefect of the CDF who issued the Society  an ultimatum early in early 2013.

In one of his last decisions  Pope Benedict XVI. lifted the ultimatum, however, shortly before his resignation. The whole question therefore remained unanswered. The unification efforts of 2005, initiated by the German Pope, which should have resulted in a canonical recognition of the Society were placed on ice.

With the election of Pope Francis, the conditions seemed even less certain than ever of being able for the failed talks to productively resume. After one and a half years of official hiatus, the talks were resumed in a surprisingly benevolent climate today.

It is clear that there were voices in the Vatican, after the successful prevention of an agreement by the Plenary Assembly of the Congregation, the resignation of Benedict XVI. and the election of Pope Francis, to take the opportunity to draw a sharp line and say to adopt a Decree of Excommunication for the bishops and all the priests of the SSPX. An option that has been suggested to Pope Francis that the Argentine Pope, despite his barely manageable aversion to tradition and the traditional rite, did not own.

Text: Giuseppe Nardi
image: Vatican Insider
Trans: Tancred vekron99@hotmail.com
Link to Katholisches...
AMGD

[Update] Lombardi Confirms Meeting Between Bishop Fellay and Cardinal Müller

Edit: As reported by Rorate, and the "Resistance" among other, there will be a meeting between Bishop Fellay and Cardinal Muller. Since then we found this update by Katholisches:

[Update 17:00] The meeting between Cardinal and Bishop Fellay Müller has now been confirmed by Vatican spokesman Father Federico Lombardi.   It has already been reported by Vatican Radio. Curiously, the message category was assigned "ecumenism" on the website of the Vatican radio station.

Pope Has Read Archbishop Lefebvre’s Biography, And Liked It

From Rorate Caeli:

With the current pope, as he is a practical man, he looks at people. What a person thinks, what he believes, is at the end a matter of indifference to him. What matters is that this person be sympathetic in his view, that he seems correct to him, one may say it like this.

And therefore he read twice Bp. Tissier de Mallerais' book on Abp. Lefebvre, and this book pleased him; he is against all that we represent, but, as a life, it pleased him. When, as a Cardinal, he was in South America, the District Superior [Fr. Christian Bouchacourt] came to ask him for an administrative favor with no relation to the Church; a visa problem, of permanent residency. The Argentine government, which is very leftwing, makes use of the concordat that was established to protect the Church to bother us quite seriously, and tells us, "you say you are Catholic, it is thus necessary for you to have the signature of the bishop in order to reside in the country." The District Superior therefore went to him to present the problem: there was an easy solution, and that would be to declare ourselves an independent church [before Civil Law], but we did not want to do it because we are Catholic. And the Cardinal told us, "no, no, you are Catholic, that is evident; I will help you;" he wrote a letter in our favor to the government, that is so leftwing that they managed to find a opposing letter by the nuncio. Therefore, a 0-0 tie. Now he is the pope, and our lawyer had the opportunity of having a meeting with the Pope. He told him that the problem was still going on with the Society, and asked him to please designate a bishop in Argentina with whom we could sort out this problem. The Pope told him, "Yes, and this bishop is myself, I promised to help, and I will do it."

I am still waiting for it, but anyway he said it, just as he said that, "those people there, they think I will excommunicate them, but they are mistaken;" he said something else that was very interesting: "I will not condemn them, and I will not stop anyone from visiting them [lit. 'd'aller chez eux'.]" Once again, I will wait to see. 

[Source: French District of the SSPX]

Official SSPX Comment on Future Interactions with Rome

Avoiding a false spirit of resistance

April 02, 2014 

District of the USA

Certainly there is a crisis in the Church, but how should we go about resisting it? What is the Catholic spirit for such circumstances and how has this been consistently practiced by the SSPX in recent years?

In the image above, Archbishop Lefebvre ascends the steps into St. Peter's Basilica during the Credo Pilgrimage of 1975.

We are happy to feature another editorial of Fr. Michel Simoulin from the April issue of Le Seignadou (The Sign of God), newsletter of the SSPX's priory in Montreal de l'Aude, France. [see the last editorial: Why I love the SSPX]

Editorial

The great question that we, and above all our superiors, have to face is doubtless the following, as a friend so well put it:

Is there no danger for the Faith if we accept to place ourselves under an authority, be it a Pope or a bishop, that for the last 50 years has worked unfailingly for the destruction of this Faith, without first coming to terms on the doctrinal questions at stake?"

The first answer is obviously: of course, the danger is great and real, we are all aware of this, and we have always said so and even insisted upon it. It is easy to refer to all the studies we have done on the Council, the New Catechism,John XXIII and John Paul II, for example. It is very obvious that if no “agreement” has yet been concluded, as Bishop Fellay so clearly explained, it is precisely because we do not wish to submit unconditionally to an authority without being sure that it wishes our good and will allow us to continue serving the Tradition of the Church without forcing us to accept Vatican II unconditionally.

SSPX Reaffirms its Wish to Continue to Criticize Vatican II and the New Mass

Edit: The Society of St. Pius X and its Superior, Bishop Bernard Fellay, are reconfirming their allegiance to the spiritual legacy of their founder Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre in their willingness to continue reaffirming the timeless traditions and dogmas of the Church and resisting those things which they say are inconsistent with it, like Religious Liberty, False Ecumenism and Collegiality. Bishop Fellay also identifies two Romes, which may as well refer to two parties working against each other during the discussions on the side of Rome.

The following letter, which comes from DICI, the Society of St. Pius X’s website, is going to reiterate the Society’s notion that the agreement they were expected, but not prepared, to sign is not something which they can accept. If you recall, the Society was being prepared to be brought into the official structure of the Church without the rigid and draconian restrictions on their religious liberty. As of present date, the CDF and the parities who have drafted the most recent Preamble for their signature, demand a level of obedience they expect from no other part of the Church at present date. We don’t know what this means, or if this is going to be accepted by those responsible in the Vatican for this reconciliation. Here’s an excerpt of the letter from Bishop Fellay:

Letter to Friends and Benefactors (April 2013)

15-04-2013

Dear Friends and Benefactors,

It has been quite a long time now that this letter has kept you waiting, and it is with joy, in this Easter season, that we would like to take our bearings and to present a few reflections on the situation of the Church.

As you know, the Society found itself in a delicate position during most of the year 2012, following the final approach of Benedict XVI in attempting to normalize our situation. The difficulties resulted, on the one hand, from requirements that accompanied the Roman proposal—to which we could not and still cannot subscribe—and, on the other hand, from a lack of clarity on the part of the Holy See that did not allow us to know precisely the will of the Holy Father or what he was ready to concede to us. The trouble caused by these uncertainties vanished as of June 13, 2012, with a clear confirmation, on the 30th of the same month, by a letter from Benedict XVI himself clearly and unambiguously spelling out the conditions that were being imposed on us for a canonical normalization.

These conditions are of a doctrinal nature; they entail the total acceptance of the Second Vatican Council and of the Mass of Paul VI. And so, as Archbishop Augustine Di Noia, Vice President of the Ecclesia Dei Commission, wrote in a letter addressed to the members of the Society of Saint Pius X at the end of last year, on the doctrinal level we are still at the point where we started out in the 1970’s. Unfortunately we can only agree with this observation by the Roman authorities and acknowledge the current relevance of the analysis by Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, founder of our Society, which was unwavering in the decades following the Council, until his death. His very accurate insight, which is at the same time theological and practical, is still valid today, fifty years after the start of the Council.

And also:

“Compelled by the facts, it is necessary to conclude that the Council has favored, inconceivably, the diffusion of liberal errors. Faith, morals, and ecclesiastical discipline have been shaken to their foundations according to the predictions of all the popes. "

  Link to DICI….

Swiss Television Broadcasts a Documentary about the SSPX

(Econe) Télévision Suisse Romande (RTS), the public broadcaster for the French speaking Switzerland broadcast a short documentary about the SSPX on 23 March on their channel RTS.

Founded by Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, the SSPX has had no canonical recognition since 1975. One approach initiated, beginning in 2005 by Pope Benedict XVI., which culminated in 2011 to a concrete agreement talks, has led to no result yet. Shortly before his resignation the Pope indicated that he would leave the question of his successor.

Benedict XVI. has offered the Society a canonical recognition by the establishment of a personal prelature. At the same time the Fraternity was given a “Doctrinal Preamble", whose signing was made a condition for the recognition. The Society currently rejects the formula contained therein with which it is to recognize the Second Vatican Council. The response of the Society to the “Doctrinal Preamble" is pending.

Link to Katholisches…

Invitation to Pope Francis to Visit Econe?

(Rome) Pope Benedict XVI. had launched talks between the Society of St. Pius X. and the Holy See. A few months after his election he received Bishop Bernard Fellay, the Superior General of the Society of Castel Gandolfo. Despite his patient efforts during an eight-year pontificate his desire to bridge the gap and a canonical recognition of the Society did not materialize.

On the 21st of February, Benedict XVI again lifted one of the [many] CDF “ultimatums” for 22 February for an answer from the SSPX to the "doctrinal preamble" of June 2012. He left the decision as to the fate of the Society to his successor.

While the radical left’s fight on the political level in their fight against the Church continues unfazed against Pope Francis, the Modernists in the tattered, left side of the Church from Hans Küng and Leonardo Boff, applaud the new Vicar of Christ on earth and to suborn him as much as possible. Behind this strikingly flaunted joy just conceals another form of criticism of Pope Benedict XVI. and his pontificate. By praising his successor, they put down the image of their favorite bogeyman, Benedict.

Of course, it's also about an unvarnished attempt by praise for the new Pope to show their own positions in a hospitable light. Leonardo Boff says in a Spiegel interview, the new pope was set for a gay-friendly and adoption rights for homosexuals. His rejection of gay marriage in Argentina had been obtained only after pressure from Rome. Also a form of wanting to control a pontificate from the outside. But the reality is different. The opinions of the then Archbishop of Buenos Aires against the introduction of gay marriage are just as authentic as the resulting conflict with the Argentine government of President Kirchner. Proof that Boff's representation doesn’t correspond to the truth is an internal letter of 22 June 2010 by the then Cardinal Bergoglio to the cloistered convents of Carmelite nuns in Argentina. In this letter he condemns degenerate "marriage" in the strongest terms, and asks the nuns to pray intensely to the Argentine senators not to vote at that time for the law being drafted by Parliament.

So much for the aging modernists. But what about the SSPX?

The relationship of the newly elected Pope Francis and the SSPX founded by Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre was recently attended by the American priest, Father John Zuhlsdorf and the Italian site Cantuale Antonianum.

A further contribution to the discussion was yielded in the meantime on the traditional Cordialiter site. Under the contribution "Pope Francis Trip to Econe” it reads:

"In the future we might receive a nice surprise, an apostolic journey of Pope Francis to Econe (Switzerland) to sign the historic peace agreement in the stronghold of Lefebvrians. That would be really a nice and concrete gesture of brotherly love. I do not think it is a non-realizable dream. It is now known that the Archbishop of Buenos Aires used to have warm relations with the Pius Brothers and I believe that if Monsignor Bernard Fellay would invite Pope Francis to Econe, the Pope might even accept the invitation. These days, we have seen that he is a spontaneous person, who can not be pressed into templates, ready even for unfamiliar and unpredictable gestures. I think that he would not let the clamor of the progressives intimidate him. Imagine the pope in the stronghold of the SSPX. That would truly be a historic meeting.

In the meantime it would be advisable for the SSPX to initiate friendly gestures such like Patriarch of Moscow. There would be nothing wrong there, if Monsignor Fellay and Patriarch Kirill would meet for dinner to talk about the dramatic would amicably spiritual situation in Europe and to other important issues for Christianity. That would not in any way contradict the doctrinal content of the encyclical Mortalium Animos by the great Pope Pius XI. If Bishop Fellay was photographed while he and the Patriarch of Moscow, was shaking his hand and the news spread that the two were friends, this would strengthen the position of the SSPX considerably. The modernists, they could not attack as much, since they might run otherwise the risk of damaging the diplomatic relations with the Orthodox, where they are known to take over a more friendly and respectful attitude as against the SSPX. “

Translation: Tancred
Text: Giuseppe Nardi
 Bild: Cordialiter
 Corrections? vekron99@hotmail.com AMGD

Zaitzkofen: SSPX Invited to Diocesan Priest Meeting to Discuss Vatican II

Edit: one more conceivable reason why Archbishop Müller, whose Diocese this was, was called to Rome to occupy what looks increasingly like a symbolic office. This would never have happened when he was the Ordinary here.

(Zaitzkofen) The seminary Herz-Jesu has invited the Society of St. Pius X to a Diocesan priests meeting.

Theme:  Second Vatican Council

Speaker:  Lecturers of the Seminary

Monday, the 26th of November 2012

It will begin at 10:30 and last till 4:30.  Respondy by 17 November 2012, in Zaitzkofen.  (Priestly Seminary Herz-Jesu, Zaitzkofen 15, 84069 Schierling; Tel. 09451/943 190).

The Pastors, chaplains and priests, who are active in pastoral care are invited.

The Society of St. Pius X has entertained contact with all priests in Germany, who are interested in Catholic tradition.  In 2011 17 pastors and chaplains participated in a lecture on the Latin Breviary in the Seminary of Herz Jesus.

Since March of this year the Society's Father Robert Schmitt was officially authorized to maintain contact with Diocesan priests.

The largest action of the Society was the sending of the DVD for learning the Catholic Sacrifice of the Mass.  In 2007 the Society personally wrote 17,000 priests in Germany in order to offer them this DVD.  There were 2,000 DVDs ordered.  The reason for the action was the Motu proprio, Summorum Pontificum of Benedict XVI, which had freed the traditional form of Mass again.

Text: PM/Linus Schnieder

Link to katholisches...

Bishop Fellay: Stays Firm, Dealing With Two Different Agendas

Edit: first they are told that the SSPX can be accepted as is and that no expectations would be included, then others are insisting that the Society must adhere to the principles of Vatican II. Then Archbishop Mueller, the new CDF, insists that the "talks are over". A few weeks after that, another statement is issued from Rome saying that the talks are not over.

We've pointed out in the past that there are two different agendas at work in Rome. It's interesting that most people seem unaware of this. We'll keep pointing it out. In the meantime, Bishop Fellay will continue to assert what the Society has always asserted and that it will not compromise those principles.

Undeniably, there are reports that there is a lot of pressure against this deal taking place from governments, Old Liberals within the Church structure who fear the growing legitimacy of Tradition in the Church, Jews and even members within the SSPX.

Here's the Bishop's statement and commentary from DICI:

This is the sort of information that reached me. Obviously it is not clear, when on the one hand you have official documents to which you have to say no, because they are asking us to accept the Council and that is not possible, and when on the other hand such reports are communicated to you. Nevertheless I made an initial response in which I said no. Someone telephoned me to tell me: “Could you not be a little more precise?” I wrote a second time. They were no more content than the first time. And so we come to March 16, when they presented to me a letter, saying, “This letter comes from the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, but it is approved by the Pope.” If I had in my hands nothing but this letter, our relations with Rome would be finished, because this letter said that no one has the right to set the past Magisterium against the Magisterium of today. Therefore no one has the right to say that today the Roman authorities are in contradiction with those of yesterday. It also said that rejecting the September 14 document which was explicitly approved by the Pope was tantamount in fact to rejecting the authority of the Pope. There was even a reference to the canons that talk about schism and about excommunication for schism. The letter continued: “The Pope, in his kindness, is allowing you another month to reflect; if you wish to change your decision, tell the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith about it.” Then it’s clear! There is nothing left to do. This letter that came to me by the official channel concludes the debate. It is over. But at the same time, I received informal advice that told me: “Yes, you will receive a harsh letter, but remain calm,” or actually: “don’t panic.”

Read it in its entirety here...

Ecclesia Dei Communiqué to SSPX: Negotiations Are Still Open

Edit:  So, the new CDF was overstepping his mandate. It seems to us to be a slap in the face.

After the expulsion of Bishop Richard Williamson the Vatican Commission Ecclesia Dei sent a Communiqué.

(kreuz.net) Today the Papal Commission 'Ecclesia Dei' sent a  clarification on the negotiations of the Vatican with the Society of St. Pius X.

A Brief History

The clarification recalled the Dogmatic discussion between the two parties.  Then it is to have given discussions about the reconciliation.

The text recalled "other decisive steps" like the freeing of the Old Mass in 2007 and the lifting of the excommunications of the SocietyBishops in 2009.

A handing over of the most recent edition of the Dogmatic Preamble of 13 June 2012 and  of the offer of a canonical normalization signified the declaration as a as a point of culmination.

No Answer Received?

At the moment the Holy See is waiting for an official answer to these documents by the Society.

After thirty years of separation it is understandable that time is necessary, in order to sort out the significance of the most recent developments.

Benedict XVI. wants to strengthen the unity of the Church by the reconciliation of the Society.  Now clarity, patience, perseverance and faith is needed.

Is God's Church at Her Last Stand?

What the statement of 'Ecclesia Dei' ignores:  The Society has made clear in some statements, that the Dogmatic Preamble of June 13th would not be acceptable.

Their terms for further negotiations are on the table.

Furthermore the German District Superior of the Society, Father Franz Schmidberger, in the middle of September, explained that to his knowledge the Vatican had been answered.

The CDF of the Pope, Archbishop Gerhard Ludwig Müller, who personally hates the SSPX, has ended the dialog for his part in several interviews.

Link to original kreuz.net...

Father Schmidberger: There Isn't Much More to be Expected From the Pope

Father Franz Schmidberger: Volte Face in the Vatican

"What use is the Motu Proprio to the Old Liturgy if a year thereafter, one of the worst opponents of this Liturgy is given a key position?"

(kreuz.net)  There are rumors that in the case of the regulation of the Society of St. Pius X that a certain western European country will have its ambassador to the Holy See threatened with resignation.

This was explained by Father Franz Schmidberger, Mathematician and German District Superior of the Society in an interview with the Catholic monthly 'Kirchliche Umschau'.

The Vatican Appeared Satisfied with the Answer

The clergyman recapitulated the most recent history of the negotiations of the Society with the Vatican.

On the 16th of March the CDF attempted to give an ultimatum to Society General Superior, Bishop Bernard Fellay, to accept the Dogmatic Preamble of September 14th.

Thereupon Bishop Fellay published a dogmatic text, which stressed the persistence of the Society in the Catholic position:

"The proposal of Msgr. Fellay went as far as we could, to satisfy the side of the CDF's position, and on the other side not to give up any of our positions."

The text found, according to Schidberger, "clearly the approval of the Holy Father and also the agreement of the Congregation for Doctrine and the Faith".

Pressure Was Put on the Pope

Then there came an unexpected change of position: Bishop Fellay received a new text on June 13th frot he CDF.

The new demands contained within were described by Father Schmidberger as "very surprising".

 The Pope was not made happy happy, according to the CDF, with a subsequently specified interview, which Msgr Fellay gave on the recognition of the the Society.

At the same time, there was probably pressure put on the Pope.

Not Acceptable

The new demands bound the recognition of the legitimacy of the New Liturgy.

That was not acceptable according to Father Schmidberger: "How can one recognize a Liturgy as legitimate, which flees from the Catholic Faith and not to it?"

The second demand touched upon the Pastoral Council: The Society many only still discuss particularities of the Council.

They must then -- against their convictions -- attempt to reconcile it with the continuity of the earlier Magisterium.

Bishop Fellay had answered this text according to the statements of Father.

The Pope Speaks and Negotiates With a Forked Tongue

Father Schmidberger believes that the appointment of the heterodox Archbishop Gerhard Luwig Müller as guardian of the Catholic Faith was responsible for a change of course toward the Society in the Vatican.

He also criticized the appointment of Archbishop Arthur Roch as Secretary of The Congregation of Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments:

"What is the point of a Motu Prorprio about the Old Liturgy, if you appoint one of its worst opponents to a key position, which will counteract the Traditional Mass?"

Catholic, Roman Catholic

However, Father Schmidberger decisively rejects any separation with Rome.

He cited the founder of the Society, Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre: "Neither Liberal nor Modernist, nor schismatic, rather Catholic, Roman Catholic!"

This devise of the Archbishop called for almost a daily tightrope walk for the society in view of the Church crisis.

A Pilgrimage for Lefebvrists?

The future of the negotiations with the Vatican would be dependent upon Archbishop Augustine Di Noia and his scope of negotiations.

Father Schmidberger discerns then that the Society still has to remain in its current position of misunderstanding.

He appealed to the faithful, not to be bitter toward the Holy See, rather to preserve love.

Some prelates in and out of the Curia have pleaded for the Society:  "They have recognized how important the effect of the Society in the official area would be."

Father Schmidberger thinks:  "Would the consideration not have value, if it meant the pastoral care of a pilgrimage or another seminary?"

The Errors Are Finally Discussed Openly

Father Schmidberger can't imagine a renewal of the Excommunication of the Society.

At the same time he insists that Msgr Muller is "really not our friend".

He demands the acceptance of the the errors, which have led to the Conciliar and post-Conciliar decline.

The recognition of the Society would mean for the ecclesiastical confession, that certain expressions are to be corrected and requires the Traditional Mass for the healing of its members.

Father Schmidberger expects little of the Pontificate of Benedict XVI.:  "Humanly, since his last personal decisions in Rome, there is not overly much to be expected."

Link to kreuz.net...