(Rome / Beijing) Vatican spokesman Greg Burke indirectly confirmed the Vatican operation in the People's Republic of China to force legitimate, faithful bishops to resign, giving way to schismatic, bishops.
"Practical steps"
On Saturday, December 15, the Global Times, a regime friendly, English-language newspaper in the People's
Republic of China, reported the presence of a Vatican delegation in
China. This had taken place in the Communist empire because of "practical steps in the implementation of the agreement on the bishops".
Last September, for the first time since the Communist takeover in 1949, a bilateral agreement was signed between the Holy See and the People's Republic of China, but its contents are kept secret by both sides. As the Global Times confirmed, this is about episcopal appointments.
In 1958, the Communist regime established its own religiously dependent Catholic Church, independent from Rome, the so-called "Patriotic Association," and has since appointed its own bishops without the consent of Rome. These bishops were excommunicated from Rome.
Simultaneously with the signing of the secret agreement, Pope Francis lifted the excommunication of these bishops and recognized them as legitimate bishops. The agreement also appears to require that these bishops be appointed and recognized as diocesan bishops by Rome. Since autumn 2017, it is known that the Vatican is urging two faithful bishops to resign to make way for bishops excommunicated so far.
Last week, as the newspaper reported, a Vatican delegation was in the "Middle Kingdom" to hold "talks on the implementation of an agreement on the appointment of bishops."These," said a spokesman for the Holy See, "talks were conducted with both government and church representatives."
The spokesperson, according to the article, was Vatican spokesman Greg Burke, who was contacted by the Chinese newspaper last Friday.
The newspaper also quoted Wang Meixiu of the Chinese Academy of Sciences as saying that the talks were about filling vacant episcopal chairs.
The "new model"
Bishop Guo Xijin was a dialogue partner of the Vatican delegation. He will be, as the Vatican wishes, auxiliary bishop of Bishop Silu in his former diocese. He confirmed this to Global Times after the meeting with the delegation from the Vatican.
Global Times presented the unusual resignation and role reversal as a "normal castling," which goes back to "practical", ecclesiastical "necessities."
There is talk of a "new model" that, if accepted by both sides "with good will", could be established with regard to episcopal nominations. Should that translate to mean that the diocesan bishops in future come from the Patriotic Association and the auxiliary bishops from the Underground Church?
Global Times concludes:
"The Press Office of the Holy See did not respond to questions as to whether the delegation's mission also included discussions on the establishment of diplomatic relations or a possible visit by Pope Francis to China."
Cardinal Zen: "Unacceptable, so I'll be silent from now on"
"I have told these two bishops that they should not resign voluntarily so as not to cooperate with evil. But I have also advised them to obey if the Pope orders it, because a pope's command must always be obeyed."At the beginning of the year, Cardinal Zen experienced the great defeat when it became clear that Pope Francis is against all warnings, for the agreement with Beijing (see also "The problem is who sits in the cage" ). Because of this disappointment, the cardinal reasons, since it is impossible for him because of his office and as a Catholic, to criticize the Pope, he will at last to retire to a monastery and to keep silent.
He said to Tempi :
"There is the problem of the seven bishops excommunicated and pardoned by Francis. So far none of them has been placed at the head of a diocese. If this happens, I will be silent for ever, because that would be unacceptable and would force me to decide to rebel against the Pope or to remain silent. I will be silent."Text: Giuseppe Nardi
Image: Global Times / Wikicommons (Screenshots)
Trans: Tancred vekron99@hotmail.com
AMDG
20 comments:
Didn't anyone ever teach Cardinal Zen that one does not have to obey a command to do something immoral, no matter who gives the command?
Didn't anyone ever teach Cardinal Zen that one does not have to obey a command to do something immoral, no matter who gives the command?
I sure looks like "the current occupant of the chair of St. Peter" has worked out a deal with China and its radical socialist philosophy to rule the world. The ruler of China would qualify as the Anti Christ although it is believe that the Anti Christ will have a Judeo background similar to that of Joseph Stalin.
What a wasted opportunity.
The Church has been signing Concordats and other dodgy compromise agreements with thug monarchs and rogue nations for centuries so why the sudden hysteria from some of the resident 'down with Francis' neurotics?
The Church hasn’t always been ruled by its enemies.
The thugs that the Church had dealt with in the past were political thugs.The thugs that wanted theological control, such as Henry VIII left to form his own Church. Francis the thug robs and rapes the Church not only politically but morally theologically and dogmatically.
Peter W : Go away. You are not doing any good on this blog and your motives are not honourable.
" because a pope's command must always be obeyed."
No disrespect, Cardinal, but that is a huge pile of B.S. What is the Catholic Church anyway, the church founded by Jesus Christ and faithful to the traditions of the the Faith and the Magesterium as it has always been presented by countless Popes, OR, a cult whereby the leader must be differed to and obeyed regardless if he teaches error, faulty diplomacy, or outright heresy. IN the past, we didn't have to worry about any of that. But since Francis and his thugs have taught and fostered nothing but those three since 2013, we MUST worry every day as we see the Church torn down by Francis and his gang.
There is a choice.....to confront evil and heresy, error and horrendously naïve and misguided diplomacy, or to sit in silence out of respect for the person of the Pope, no matter what heresy he pushes. The former, I believe Christ would expect of his faithful. The later, I believe, is the influence of the devil.
To keep in silence when the Pope is true to the Faith is normal.
To keep in silence when the Pope and his people are heretics, and allow them to destroy the Church and its traditions everywhere is sick.....and even evil (even if unintentional)
Damian Malliapalli
A Pope cannot be a heretic.
A Pope cannot be a FORMAL HERETIC.
Constantine, the onus of divine and natural justice is on you to provide incontestable evidence to prove that Francis 'robs and rapes the Church not only politically but morally, theologically and dogmatically.' The CDF demands this level of evidence and so do secular courts or are you exempt from such obligations.
Demonstrate to you follower that you are not just a grab bag of piss and wind.
You don't need proif beyond the Teaching of violation of natural law. A Talmudist, a muslim or even an athiest of Good Will would recognize Bergoglio's perverse mind.
@ "Peter W": Firstly, your use of vulgar language demonstrates a lack of genuine sensitivity for God's Truth and Natural Law to begin with. Secondly, to answer your question, the CDF is also part of the problem. They are so busy with legalities that they don't see the forest from the tree, just as you talk about God but fail to respect Him in your words.
That's the problem with pseudo-intelkectuals: they are so detached from the real world, that tbey fail to understand tbat one does not need to write a 500 page treatese or research paper to see what a sincere and honest person can see, that which is written in the hearts of all men of good will.
A Pope cannot be a heretic? What happened to free will does a Pope lose free will after the conclave? Does the Pope have a confessor? Can the Pope commit mortal sin? Can a Pope live an immoral life outside the state of grace? History and everything we know says yes to all these questions. God does not compell allegiance to His grace we and that includes the Pope must say yes as did our blessed mother.
To Tom A:
You wrote...."A Pope cannot be a heretic"
You're very naïve, Buddy, to think that. There have been popes in the past who have been evil, immoral, corrupt, sodomites, incompetent fools, and mentally unbalanced old men. Nearly all were in the first 800 years of the Church, when politics and politically powerful Roman familes often dictated who was chosen pope. Some were good and holy men....a half dozen were either corrupt, personally evil persons who squandered money, spent lavishly on themselves,or had mistresses. and among them, one or two were queers. The last documented immoral and corrupt Pope was Leo X, and that was 550 years ago.
But despite their faults and personal immorality, none, until now, were heretics. None departed from the Deposit of the Faith, the Magesterium. None repudiated Catholic tradition, or degraded and insulted Catholic piety and belief. None in at least the last 400 years appointed openly gay or immoral men who were/are sexual predators/perverts to high office....until now.
Bergoglio has made degrading and imflammatory remarks against Catholic tradition. He has insulted those who remain traditional, including religious Orders. He has broken with the teachings of the Faith in several critical areas. He seems intent on destroying the Catholic Church as it has always been known and creating something new and different...according to his tast,and those of his corrupt associates.
No popes, no matter how personally immoral or evil they were, on their own departed from the Teaching and Tradition of the Faith. But Bergoglio has. He has contradicted the teachings of past Popes, and insulted their teachings...even just this week.
The basic definition of a heretic is one who teaches a doctrine or proposes a new thinking contrary to the traditional and defined dogmas/teachings of a specific religion or organization.
Bergoglio and his people have done so. Therefore, this Pope is a heretic.
Damian Malliapalli
Constantine, you're talking nonsense about the Natural Law being evident to all, written into the hearts of all and accessible by reason alone. This argument was tacked on to Humanae Vitae to claim the artificial contraception was/is a violation of nature. That was flatly and emphatically rejected by 98% of Catholics world wide who made it abundantly clear that the claim of the HV authors was little more than an ambit claim to authority that was groundless. The curial tacticians then changed tack to argue that the formerly evident to all, written in the hearts of all Natural Law had to be interpreted and the only one who had to do this with authority is the Pope. Read all about it:(http://www.ewtn.com/library/CURIA/HV25YEAR.HTM)
Since when is it required of a dogma that its popular appeal determines its truth value?
Tancred, ever heard of the Sensus Fidei Fidelium? Read Newman and you might get a clue. HV's bar on contraception is not Catholic doctrine, it's the attempt by control freaks like Ottaviani to use the tortured thinking of his little minority team of ethicists to promote an ideologically charged opinion as dogma.
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