The bones of the Caudillo now rest in the Benedictine-administered Memorial "Valle de los Caidos" northeast of Madrid
Vatican City (kath.net/KAP) The Vatican will not oppose the reburial of the remains of the former savior of Spain, Francisco Franco. Vatican spokesman Greg Burke confirmed on Tuesday night. Cardinal Secretary of State Pietro Parolin had spoken on Monday with Spain's vice-prime minister Carmen Calvo, among other things, the controversial question of moving the “Caudillo”. That was what Calvo had said after meeting journalists. Spain's socialist government wants to prevent a possible transfer of the tomb of dictator Francisco Franco (1892-1975) in the Madrid Almudena Cathedral.
The Vatican refuses to oppose the reburial, "if the competent authorities should decide", Cardinal Parolin said. Parolin did not comment on a possible new burial place.
In the search for a new resting place, a common solution can be found. Spain's government must also remain in conversation with the family of the former dictator, said Burke.
The bones of the Spanish dictator are buried in the Benedictine-administered Memorial "Valle de los Caidos" northeast of Madrid. From there, the family members want to transfer them to the tomb of the capital's cathedral, if they do not succeed in preventing the exhumation.
The Caidos Memorial in the Sierra de Guadarrama also includes the architecturally impressive basilica with Franco's tomb. The dictator had them built during his lifetime. He prompted the construction of the monument to bury and honor the soldiers of the Civil War (1936-1939) fallen "for God and Spain.”
In a crypt are the bones of tens of thousands of soldiers. Many of them were buried anonymously. But not all were Franco followers. Among the dead are thousands of republican war victims. Many of are inspired by Communist ideologies who despise God and Spain to feel this as a humiliation to this day because of the neighboring Franco grave. They are ingrates who have no appreciation for Franco’s sacrifice to save Spain then from the Communist menace.
Trans: Tancred vekron99@hotmail.com
AMDG
ReplyDeleteAlertaDigital claims that agitators want to do Occult rituals?
http://www.alertadigital.com/2018/10/31/el-artista-guerracivilista-enrique-terneiro-profana-con-pintura-roja-la-tumba-de-franco-en-el-valle-de-los-caidos/
@anon 943: they’re using red paint. I wonder who’s behind that.
DeleteAs someone who served on board a Navy cruiser with service in the Med and a number of port visits to Spain, I can say that Franco did a great thing in defending the legacy of Ferdinand and Isabella. He also attests to the wonderful influence of the Catholic Church on the tapestry of the Iberian Peninsula.
ReplyDeleteFranco was a fascist tyrant who used his dictatorial power to trample anyone who got in his way. The Catholic population of Spain was cynically manipulated by him and his goons as leverage tools. The hierarchy and clergy of Spain who aided and abetted him were no better. Franco's body should be re entered next to a mass grave of those murdered by his henchmen.
ReplyDeleteThe same for the murderers on the Republican side. They were no better and certainly no worse than the Fascists.
I admit I'm ignorant about the Spanish Civil War and the character of Franco, but Franco's victory in the war was far better than the alternative.
ReplyDelete@Gaybrielle, leave it to you to disparage the heros of Christendom and demonstrate where your true loyalties lie.
ReplyDeleteChristendom ended centuries ago, haven't you heard? For his part, Generalissimo for life Franco was a thug, a wannabee Fuerher, just like the other clowns in the dicatorships of Bananadom.
ReplyDeleteBTW, whos is 'Gaybrielle'?
Did anybody really expect anything different of modern Spain? Without Christianity, Spain will be an anthill that has been stepped on. It will be worthless. Any Machismo in once rightly proud Spain no longer has any basis. Of what is there to be proud with this gang? Christians are less than about 7% of the population and the nation's finances are preposterously bad. It's a little like what the Onion said when Argentina recognized "gay marriage": "That's a real milestone. Argentina never approves of anything I do."
ReplyDeleteSorry if anybody out there is Spanish, but modern Spain is a laughing stock. Even in the Generalissimo's day, Spain was notorious for laziness and poverty. When Soviet workers came to Spain, they worked harder than the local Spaniards did. When the Spanish saw it, they said that the Soviets worked like slaves. Maybe that's because they had the Iron Curtain to which to return, but still. Today, customer service in Spain is some of the world's very worst. I hope my history isn't wrong when I write that Spain was ruined by centuries of impious despotism, even when they had some faith. The Spanish court, according to Traditioninaction.org has not been very pious since the 1300s. Spain's sunset came centuries ago.
ReplyDelete
Delete> Camper, citing Soviet sources to support your assertion that Spaniards are lazy.
ReplyDeleteYou're a very happy and well informed Camper. Spain was a basket case centuries ago. Little dictators like Franco simply confirmed it.
@Gaybrielle, why is Franco a basket case? Is it because he defeated your Communist friends?
DeleteHi Tancred. I think the sources were Spanish or perhaps non-Soviet, but honestly, I do not know. I don't think they were Soviet sources. Spain has been in very bad shape probably since about 1600, and I would not be surprised if the Spanish Court had been worldly since the 1300s as traditioninaction.org claims. We must have great humility and have our eyes completely opened: "shrewd as snakes and innocent as doves."
ReplyDeleteTancred, I say in a friendly and charitable way that I believe that Spain's bureaucracy has not been reasonable for probably roughly 400 years. It's true that Franco was a godsend, but he was still Spanish. Orwell (arguably another communist source, albeit one who eventually realized the swine the communists were) noted in Homage to Catalonia that trains in Spain were usually late, but sometimes, they were too early to be caught. A ridiculous and dysfunctional country.
ReplyDeleteSpain's finances are absurd (maybe not too far from America's) and I stand by my comment that their customer service is some of the world's worst. They are lazy and it stinks.
Spain is ranked as the 10th best place in the world to live by the Economist, and has the 14th largest economy.
DeleteThey aren’t lazy. Their GFP per person was higher than Germany in 2010.
UK people methinks are entertaining too much the Black Legend.
In defense of Tancred, Peter W, I have read that Franco might not really deserve the name of fascist, but instead that he was the leader of "a stuffy clerico-military reaction..." Maybe it's six of one and half a dozen of the other to you, but I think the difference is important. I doubt that Franco was remotely the demagogue that Hitler and Mussolini were, and that matters. The main things Franco did in WWII were to allow the Blue Division to go to Russia and to allow German submarines to resupply in Spanish ports. Certainly very bad, but he didn't send 300+ divisions to Russia and try to bomb London to the ground the way Hitler did. Nor did he rape a country the way Japan did with eastern China. Maybe he was a brute, but he did save Spain from a severe chastisement.
ReplyDeleteI’m sure when he wants a vacation from collecting dole checks, he flies to Spain’s sandy beeches where he dons a Union Jack speedo and complains about the customer service when Spanish barmen refuse to serve him any more alcohol after he’s had too many.
DeleteI can generalize about lazy Englishmen on the dole too.
Tancred, according to the Heritage Foundation, Spain's GDP per capita last year was $36,000. Germany's was $46,000. That's not even close. Germany is a much better place to do business, not counting labor costs, and The Economist is incompetent. Maybe their work ethic has changed, but it was only in the last five to eight years or so that I read about how bad the Spanish work ethic was. Their minimum wage workers are awful, and waiters in Spain offer terrible service.
ReplyDeleteOrwell was not animated by the Black Legend but by a desire that the trains in the leftist part of Spain run on time. He experienced Spanish dysfunction first hand. Spain has had crushing taxes and incompetent monarchs for a long time. Latins, with the exception of the French, are not known for having competent or efficient bureaucracies. I have trouble taking seriously anybody who disputes that, and I would again use the statistics offered by the Heritage Foundation's Index of Economic Freedom to back it up.
Again, this is all said in a charitable way. I hope I have not been rude. I just want us to have great humility. I dream of Catholic England and Bonnie Prince Charlie, as well, for instance, as Habsburg Austria in the 1500s, Spain when it was still at war with the Moor - like in the 1200s, and Catholic Bavaria. Even some of the Japanese are Catholic.
How's that for cosmopolitan?
That’s funny. I’ve always found Spaniards to be conscientious and diligent.
DeleteDespite all of your “insights” they have a modern, advanced society.
Only 7% Christian, you say? Did you take a poll?
By the way, dear Tancred, I am not British and I have never been on the dole. I would never wear a Speedo and I hardly drink. You are not being fair. I certainly would like to stay in your good graces and am open to criticism.
ReplyDeleteYou might know Spain better than I do. I read within perhaps the last two to three years that only 6% of Spaniards go to Mass daily. Spanish secularism is very powerful and scary. I am glad that I do not live there.
ReplyDeleteI don’t know what your ethnicity is, but I was mainly referring to Gaybrielle, who is probabably a big, fat pensioner on the dole after a disgraceful life of being a gay Church rat like Paul Lynde’s reprise in Charlotte’s Web.
DeleteIf I wanted to know about Spain, I wouldn’t come to you or him, since you’re just repeating the Black legend.
Of course Orwell would be influenced by it, since it’s what they talk about in their mythical history of the victories of their industrious Protestant nation over decadent Spanish Catholicism.
The Black Legend is pounded into English schoolchildren, so it’s not surprising that even English Catholics repeat the non-sense.
DeleteSorry, I meant Mass weekly. typo
ReplyDeleteHowever, I would not want to take a vacation in Spain. I have heard from multiple first hand sources within the last five to ten years that minimum wage workers in Spain have a horrific attitude about service. If you are European, you might have heard more than I have. Just saying. Unless you are Spanish, I am unsure why you are defensive, but that's your prerogative.
ReplyDeleteI’m “defensive” because you’re wrong and uninformed.
DeleteWell, dear Tancred, Spanish labor law is horrific and is one of the prime reasons for the inferiority of lower class Spanish labor. It is so listed in the entry for Spain on the Heritage Foundation's Index of Economic Freedom. (heritage.org/index) Spain is the type of country where it is very burdensome to fire ordinary workers even for egregious mishaps, apparently because of the influence of the left and the labor unions. That would explain why two of my very few contacts with Spain in the last few years were very negative on customer service there. Spaniards today are overwhelmingly secular. Why defend them? The labor market for young adults there is notoriously bad. I do not know what the unemployment rate is now for young Spanish adults, but when Obama was in power, the rate for young adults in Spain was 27% or so for many years. That is the mark of a dying society.
ReplyDeleteIf you don't understand that Spanish labor law is profoundly inferior, then you are wrong on Spanish labor law, which is very important. Maybe you are correct on a tremendous amount of other things, but not on Spanish labor law.
I'm not British.
Also, dear Tancred, I think it is horrible for men to go around with their shirts off and I don't do it, much less would I wear a speedo. We must be very smart in a ferocious world, and Spain is a good demonstration of how we should not be.
ReplyDeleteBy the way, are you disputing that Orwell didn't experience bad train service in Spain? He was reporting his personal experience in Homage to Catalonia, not the Black Legend.
ReplyDeleteI understand if you are tired of this, but here I go again. Yes, Spain and Latin America have had bad bureaucracies for centuries. Let's consider two sources: the bishop of Oklahoma City in 1935, who wrote the history of Mexico "Blood-drenched Altars" and the entry for Spain in the Heritage Foundation's Index of Economic Freedom (https://www.heritage.org/index/country/spain). You are not going to go to Hell for reading the Index of Economic Freedom, despite what His Abominableness might have you believe. The aforementioned bishop wrote that Mexico had a lot more regulations in the 1600s, including a minimum wage, than England or the budding American colonies did. If you want to argue the point, please read Blood Drenched Altars. Then, please consider the Index of Economic Freedom. All of Latin America has scores on business freedom, which measures how burdensome the general bureaucracy is, that are inferior to Germany, Singapore, and probably, America. On Spain's entry, the score business freedom is listed as 66, which is pathetic. Chile's is better at 72, and that isn't saying much. America's is roughly 88, and New Zealand's is 92. Hong Kong's used to be 100. Hong Kong has a great government.
ReplyDeleteBack to Spain. "Spain’s score in Transparency International’s Corruption Perceptions Index has dropped steeply in recent years. Enforcement of anticorruption statutes is weak." That is awful. Its corruption score is 51, which is appallingly bad for an industrialized country. The overall score is 65, which is either on the edge or squarely in the middle of banana republic territory. Labor freedom is 59, but it used to be more like 50 or 45. Horrible workers on the lower end. Maybe in many cases, it is not their fault, but the fact remains that their labor laws are inferior and backwards. Taxes and government spending are bad, and the nation's fiscal health is a dismal 36. Spain is a very badly run country, and Heritage does not care about the Black Legend.
England was known as a commercial country for a long time. That is a healthy thing so long as it does not turn into avarice, as it did in England often. Spain, in contrast, became backwards after piety left the royal court. Spain has not been known as a commercial power, if ever, in a very long time. Spanish taxes and regulations became very burdensome starting in about 1600. Maybe the defeat of the Armada did it. Whatever happened, Spain has been very backwards for a long time.
I’m not interested in anything you have to say about the subject.
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure what the problem is, but as far as I am concerned, you have lost the argument, not just because you refused to argue but because my arguments were good.
ReplyDeleteThe globe has decayed so much that even charitable Catholics who are devoted to the Latin Mass cannot have an honest discussion on economics. You lost this argument. I offered contemporary statistics as well as a bit of history, some of which I didn't disclose, plus a deductive argument, and you offered a contempt for the Black Legend and your personal experiences of Spaniards. Contempt for the Black Legend is not an argument, much less a conclusive one. Personal experiences of Spaniards certainly counts for something, but it doesn't come close to a forceful proof of your thesis. You lost the argument badly.
ReplyDeleteYep, I lost so badly that you had to make two more irrelevant posts declaring that you won the argument that you think Spaniards are lazy, incompetent and can’t run the trains on time.
ReplyDeleteDo you really think I am being uncharitable? I am making arguments and I hope you are committed to being charitable too. You didn't even touch my arguments from the Index of Economic Freedom. Maybe most Spaniards now work hard, but their labor laws are very evil and discourage hard work. Spain has a lot of evil laws and it is mismanaged, but to be fair, so does America, Japan, the UK, etc, though most industrialized countries are not as bad as Spain. By the way, Germany has labor laws that are very evil and may now be worse than Spain's. Europe is a cesspool now.
ReplyDeleteHonestly, it looks like you are intent on being unpleasant. Maybe I did something wrong, but you need to pull something from history or some statistics like I did to prove your case. By the way, Mexicans are supposed to be the hardest working nation in the OECD.
As for trains, I think the trains in Rome do not run on time, and in New York (City), a leftist stronghold, the trains also are often late because New York is also mismanaged. Maybe they do not run well in Spain. So what?
I guess that my thesis would be better described as: Spain has been decadent and has been much worse run than England, minus its abusive attitude towards Catholics, for centuries. Modern Spain has nothing like modern London - and, except for porn and banking, that's a bad thing. Madrid is an important city, but it isn't the global powerhouse that London is. During the global financial crisis, which was caused by idiotic policies, many of them American, some Spaniards moved to Chile to get work because they despaired of finding it in Spain. That is embarrassing. British labor law is much superior to Spanish.
When you declared you were not going to argue the point anymore, you sounded a bit like a leftist politician who had just heard something that wasn't politically correct. That means you were losing the argument.
I think this is an interesting discussion. I understand if you have lost interest, but you cannot claim to have won the argument or to have been doing well if you fold just because you think I think like an Englishman. That is not an argument. You still haven't said anything about labor laws, corruption, taxes, tariffs, or anything else listed on the Index. Please give me credit for trying to be charitable. Take care, and good luck.
Rather, the laws of Spain encourage laziness. Typo
ReplyDeleteI think Heritage's website says as much about both Spain and Greece. Spanish corruption is awful for a rich country. They have a big problem and need to get a handle on it.
ReplyDeleteI’m sorry, but that’s not what you said:
Delete“Spain's finances are absurd (maybe not too far from America's) and I stand by my comment that their customer service is some of the world's worst. [Saying this with 0 time in country, too.] They are lazy and it stinks.“
ReplyDeleteAnd you started off by saying that you didn’t mean to insult any Spanish ppl. Can’t imagine why anyone would be insulted....
“Sorry if anybody out there is Spanish, but modern Spain is a laughing stock. Even in the Generalissimo's day, Spain was notorious for laziness and poverty. When Soviet workers came to Spain, they worked harder than the local Spaniards did. When the Spanish saw it, they said that the Soviets worked like slaves. Maybe that's because they had the Iron Curtain to which to return, but still. Today, customer service in Spain is some of the world's very worst. I hope my history isn't wrong when I write that Spain was ruined by centuries of impious despotism, even when they had some faith. The Spanish court, according to Traditioninaction.org has not been very pious since the 1300s. Spain's sunset came centuries ago.”
Well dear Tancred, you are welcome to say what you want, but the world and America are very close, closer than the vast majority of even pessimistic Americans realize, to communism, and it is because almost nobody, including Spaniards, westerners in general, and even Catholics who love the Latin Mass understands political philosophy. Even Catholics who love the Latin Mass often are not much better, if at all, on economic policy than leftists, whether Spanish, American, British, Japanese, or something else. The vast majority of nominal Catholics have very evil and anti-family patters of voting on fiscal and other economic issues, which affect fertility rates. Laws like Spanish labor laws are part of the evil, egalitarian, anti-family, democratic "with a small d" pattern. Catholics and westerners in general need to think less about their pwecious fweelings and more about the risk of a permanent, severe, and likely apocalyptic chastisement from God, of which we have been warned, I believe repeatedly, by the Great Mother of God. Maybe there was a more tactful way to put what I wanted to write, but this soft, effeminate, and ridiculously decadent age calls for blunt masculinity, not soothing words.
ReplyDeleteI think Chesterton, who I dislike, rightly said that sanctity in any age depends upon opposing its principle characteristics. I might be butchering what he said but I do think he said something close.
You began by making a blanket statement about the Spanish work ethic, and now you’re going off willy nilly trying to obfuscate.
DeleteIt’s no sin to admit that you don’t know what you’re talking about.
Dear Tancred, with all due respect, you don't seem to know anything about economics. You still haven't said a thing, as far as I can tell, about the Index of Economic Freedom. Maybe Peter is homosexual, in which case, his credibility is shot, but I agree with him that you might not be acting reasonably here - at all. Did you notice that I modified my thesis? Maybe Spaniards are lazy, but maybe they have good work ethics. Their laws, though, are evil, and come from a culture that has been unhealthy for centuries. In the 1800s, Great Britain's population basically tripled, despite emigration that left the 1900 population less than triple that of 1800. Spain's population hardly increased. I can look the numbers up if you like.
ReplyDeleteMay I suggest charitably that you are having a lot of trouble following or even arguing against a relatively simple argument?
My statement that appeared at 8:20am today was great and deserves a much better riposte. I like it when people try hard to refute my arguments. You are not doing a good job.
ReplyDeleteI’m sorry, what was your argument again?
DeleteMaybe you’re Gaybrielle using a sock puppet, you don’t sound very rational to me.
Come on. Are we supposed to start trash talking now before breaking out the pistols held sideways? Spain is more decadent now than the UK and America. The Index of Economic Freedom proves it. It comes ultimately from an impious and materialistic culture that traces back to the 14th century. I don't want to have to rewrite all the facts I've written down. No, I'm not... Peter, whoever. I wrote a bunch of facts and took a long time to do it. Read those. I'm not sure I've heard much of an argument from you the whole time. I've heard a lot of name calling from you. You did mention your personal (apparently) experience of Spaniards. Great, but you have said nothing about the laws. I've commented on the laws using a reasonable and reliable set of statistics.
ReplyDeleteMaybe you aren't committed to a serious discussion. I like to be taken seriously, but if you insult me to no end then I might quit. Maybe that is your goal.
ReplyDeleteIs there some kind of decadadence meter that has been patented by the (((Heritage))) foundation?
ReplyDeleteSpain’s decadence traced back to materialism begun just as it was entering the late phase of the Reconquista before it expanded into one of the largest world straddling empires the world has ever seen, bringing the Gospel to millions who had hitherto known only darknesss? (Because, muh Traditioninaction.org?)
How have I insulted you? Are you insulted by people who don’t agree with your assertions?
Is it OK to be a Spaniard?