Edit: anyone with a rudimentary catechism would know Medjugogoo is fake.
[UNAMsanctamcatholicam] We haven't heard much from Medjugorje lately - I was following the Ruini Commission for awhile, which was charged with investigated the alleged apparitions by the Holy Father and was supposed to come up with some sort of definitive judgment. I still haven't heard anything from Cardinal Ruini, but this 2008 interview with Bishop Andrea Gemma, one of the Church's foremost exorcists, has recently come to light in which the bishop soundly condemns Medjugorje as a diabolical phenomenon.
Here's a background item on the Medjugorje case, a May 2008 interview with Bishop Andrea Gemma from Gianluca Barile's website Petrus. It was reported in the press at the time, and some quotations did appear, but I never came across the full text until recently.
Here's a background item on the Medjugorje case, a May 2008 interview with Bishop Andrea Gemma from Gianluca Barile's website Petrus. It was reported in the press at the time, and some quotations did appear, but I never came across the full text until recently.
Medjugorje: the accusation of the bishop-exorcist Mons. Gemma: "The apparitions of the Madonna? Completely false: the seers lie under the inspiration of Satan to profit economically"
http://unamsanctamcatholicam.blogspot.com/2011/04/bishop-and-exorcist-andrea-gemma-on.html?m=1
AMDG
43 comments:
What made you bring this up, presently? I am curious.
I was there in July 1988, with my wife.
Karl
Because and who cares?
does the devil have authority to replicate the miracle of the sun, because i have been seeing it in medj since 1993 (my first visit).
I was just curious. That's all. Don't take offense.
And, for the record. I have never believed that what is going on there is authentic. In fact, I did not want to go but my wife insisted. Shortly after we came back to America, our marriage went south and a year later I was abandoned by my wife, for another man.
I have read that numerous divorces have occurred in families who went there but I cannot place the source or vouch for my statement. It is just what my memory tells me.
But, the final judgment on Medjugorje is not mine to make.
Karl
A priest once said he did not believe Our Lady was appearing at Medjugorje, he was asked why not, he answered the obvious, "A child knows the voice of its Mother. Someone is putting words in her mouth". When one loves the Marian apparitions approved by the Church, one recognizes Our Mother's voice. She is not speaking at Medjugorje. The alleged seers started off poor, now they are rich. Its what the Church calls the sin of Simony. To make a financial profit using God or Our Lady. This is a damnable sin. Those agents of satan have deceived so many people of good will, pitting many of them against the True Catholic Faith.
Medjugorje is also very ecumenical---in its own clumsy, clunky way. The heresy of ecumenism is not the Catholic Faith, no matter what a hijacked council may declare or apostate hierarchs say and do. Ecumenism is the old religious indifferentism, an error denounced officially by the Church, with the new smarmy, touchy-feely false charity regnant in our times.
Anonymous, You ask if the devil can replicate the miracle of the sun, yes he can. Scripture tells us that satan can appear as an Angel of God as he is the great deceiver. As for those who believe in Medgujorge and look into the sun and see things, I believe that. But it does not come from God. Doctors had long been telling the Church to tell those believers not to look into the sun. Many have gone completely blind others now have permanent eye damage. What they see is not from God but from the devil. 70,000 people looked at the sun at Fatima and none of them suffered any eye damage, this is a true miracle from God. BTW, You having looked into the sun at Medgugorje, how is your eyesight?
The French cameraman figured this out years ago when he flicked his finger into the face of one of the "seers", she blinked an flinched of course. The French aren't easily fooled by this garbage. Here in Florida I know of a Mejugorje guru priest, a real creepy guy and they even put up Medjugorje billboards along interstate highway. When you have to spread word of an apparition by buying billboards along the highway, that alone should tell you something.
Here is the thing: the famous exorcist Fr. Gabriele Amorth did believe in the apparitions at Medjugorje so there is still confusion until the Church rules definitively. For me, the disobedience of the 'visionaries' was most telling.
Lately I have wondered in BOTH Satan and Our Lady are at Medj. I definitely see the diabolical there, no doubt. I came across an interesting locution recorded by Maria Julie Jahenny on June 28, 1880. It was a conversation between Jesus and satan. She heard satan say: "In those years, I will make many revelations [that is, false revelations through apparitions which are actually demonic in origin]." "In those years.." meant 100 years from the locution. Medj started on June 24, 1981 - almost 101 years to the day. However, I do know of many conversions, reversions and solid vocations that have happened from visits there. "Where Sin abounds, Grace abounds all the more." Also, Medj is near where the assassination of Franz Ferdinand happened which led to WWI and ultimately, WWII. Our Lady appears at Fatima between those two wars to warn us and give us God's plan for peace. I think Medj could be a battle between Our Lady and Satan. It will never be approved because you will never be able to say "this is due to Our Lady and this is due to Satan." Something to ponder.
Hogwash! Guaranteed this priest never went to Medjugorje! He repeats the same tired line of other doubters about businesses profiting. How about hearing what Rome's most respected and top exorcist had to say on Medjugorje. One must be careful in doubting a true apparition place which may prevent others from going. The fruits of this mission are vast, ongoing and undeniable. I know of one offhand whose marriage was saved. There are many miracles. It's a lack of faith that causes doubt.
The one thing I have found with Medjugorje believers is they can't be told any amount of facts or evidence, they will keep on disputing and ignore you when you present the facts to them. The local bishops condemn it, knowledgeable churchmen such as Fr. Malachi Martin point out the lack of obedience of the seers to their local bishop, the "seers" have fancy homes and cars, and the continuous stream of "messages" supposedly from our Lady. Never anywhere before has our Lady been so verbose the whole thing is absurd. But nevertheless it's a pretty strong deception of the devil because these folks will argue forever against facts and don't change their minds. Pray for them to see their way out of this deception.
Sure he knew the devil can deceive which is why he believed they happened. That changing metals into "gold", that is one thing that has been happening at Medjugorje forever, that is a classic, ancient trick of the devil and folks fall for it there hook, line, and sinker.
Who was it that told one of the 'seers' that the real birthday of our Lady is August 5th? According to this 'seer' the BVM was to have told her this? I was there when she claimed this. Does anyone know of any other time that Our Lady has said such a thing? Going against what the Church traditionaly holds as September 8th being her true birthdate. As also written in Ven. Mary of Agreda' 'City of God' and by Blessed Ann Catherine Emmerich?
I'll never understand people who think Medjugorje is evil. Some people who went there got divorced or left the Church ? There have been literally millions of people who have been there so statistically one would expect things like that. Do you have proof that everybody who has visited Lourdes, Fatima or Guadalupe has stayed married or stayed in the Church ? If approved, Medjugorje, like the apparition sites I named, will be classified as private revelation. No-one is required to believe them. So chill.
It's not every day a bishop holds forth on Medjogorje publicly and so unambiguously, without any waffle.
Probabaly has to do with the almost complete lack of orthodoxy in the supposed, and frankly puerile, locutions and the incorrigible stupidity or dishonesty of the adherents?
I would worry about the diabolical in the Vatican, never mind medjugorge.
Sorry, you are really unconvincing; besides, there are plenty of very orthodox people, including priests and bishops, who are in favor of Medjugorje.
By the way, I have never been there and do not have a personal certitude about that, but I happen to know one of the seers (she lives near me, in Italy) and she's not rich. She also seems a very good person, but I already know your explanation: the Devil...
This five sentence 'article' is merely fodder to start an argument. There is nothing substantive about it. It is just a molotov cocktail thrown to start off the new week of contention.
Here is my opinion, Pope Francis has shelved making a decision about the status of Medjugorje, therefore it must be from God. If it was promoting protestantism, or Islam, he would have Church Approved it already. The main messages are prayer, fasting, Scripture, Eucharist and Confession.
So you just ignore the flagrant heresy. Even heretics fast, have Communion and read scriptures.
I guess the words of an orthodox Bishop don't carry much weight with you Pentecostal types, it's true.
"I'll never understand people who think Medjugorje is evil"....
When 'visionaries' claim that the Blessed Mother says "All religions are equal before God" and "In God there are no divisions or religions; it is you in the world who have created divisions", I'd call that a pretty good indicator. For Heaven's sake, get your head out of your butt and educate yourself....
http://www.st-mary.info/medjugorje/
Brother Rufino, once one of the great noblemen of Assisi, had become a companion of Francis. One day the devil appeared to him in the form of the Crucified Christ, telling him not to believe anything told to him by the 'son of Peter Bernardone' (St. Francis of Assisi), and whoever follows him is deceived.
But the Holy Spirit revealed all this to Brother Masseo and he perceived great peril for Brother Rufino and sent him to see St. Francis immediately and tell him of his vision.
Upon telling Francis of his vision, our Seraphic Father kindly showed Rufino that the vision was the devil and not Christ, and therefore he should in no way consent to his suggestions. "You should also have known that he was the devil because he hardened your heart to everything that is good, for that is exactly his job," said Francis
"The next time the devil speaks to you," St. Francis said, "answer him confidently, 'Open your mouth - and I will Sh*t [empty my bowels] in it!' And let it be a sign to you that he is the devil and he will immediately go away."
When Brother Rufino did as St. Francis instructed, the devil angrily went away with such a commotion and fall of rocks around Mount Subasio that a great mass of stones hurtled down for a long while.
Saint Francis of Assisi
Little Flowers of St. Francis - 29
T
I too believe Marie Julie Jahenny. She spoke the absolute truth.
From My Heart will Triumph
There is so little I can say about the secrets. They are, after all, secrets. When Our Lady entrusted me with the third secret, though, she allowed me to reveal a few details about it, perhaps because we had asked Her so many times to leave a sign. I can say this much-after the events contained in the first two secrets come to pass, Our Lady will leave a permanent sign on Apparition Hill where She first appeared. Everyone will be able to see that human hands could not have made it. People will be able to photograph and film the sign, but in order to truly comprehend it-to experience it-they will need to come to Medjugorje. Seeing it live, with the eyes, will be far more beautiful. The six of us visionaries do not speak to each other about the secrets. The only part of the secrets that we know we share in common is the permanent sign. I cannot speak about the details of the other secrets before the time comes to reveal them to the world, except to say that they will be announced before they occur. After the events take place as predicted, it will be difficult for even the staunchest skeptics to doubt the existence of God and the authenticity of the apparitions.
Ann, I read on how Our lady in an alleged apparition at Medjugorje was dressed very beautiful. The seer asked her why, and Our Lady supposedly answered "Its my birthday", it was Aug 5th. Those using the trickery of these false apparitions made a major mistake. Aug 5th is a major Marian Feast, the Dedication of the Papal Basilica of Santa Maria Maggiore in Rome. I read what the Ven. Mary of Agreda said about Our Lady's Birthday. Our Lady told her that the Church was guided by the Holy Ghost in determining December 08 as the actual date of her Immaculate Conception and 9 months later September 08 as her actual birth date. The priest who was one of those responsible for the fake apparitions was silenced by Rome. Told never to speak on Medjugorje again or risk excommunication, this priest left the priesthood. A jehovahs witness couple from Italy visit Medjugorje and bring back a statue that begins to weep blood, the Bishop approves it as supernatural and claims he was a witness who saw the statue weep. Later Rome condemns this occurrence and suspends the Bishop for lying. The Bishop of Medjugorje asked Bergoglio not to condemn the apparitions, that Bishop is suspected of simony as his reason seemed he didn't want to lose the big money maker false apparitions, it was good for the local economy. So many of the fruits of Medjugorje are rotten.
Yes, one of false visions supported the heresy that everyone can be saved, even outside the Church. It is notable that the Octave of the Chair of Peter, dedicated in the 1900s to bringing people into union with the Church, has been repurposed to support the errors and deceits of ecumenism as presently taught.
Not true. The Bishops of Mostar have condemned the activities of the alleged visionaries and have warned pilgrims that the apparitions are false. They have taken this stance for over thirty years. Neither Bishop Zanic or his successor ever promoted the alleged visions. They have repeatedly asked the "visionaries" to cease their activities regarding this. They are good bishops.
I am skeptical of anything coming out of the church or rome since vatican 2. Stick with tradition.
Annie, One of the problems at the beginning of the alleged apparitions was that the Bishop who oversaw Medjugorje condemned it as not of supernatural origin. It was claimed that the Bishop was only taking revenge on the disobedient Franciscans whom he had ordered to leave the Diocese. The Bishop was outright defied, not just by these Franciscans but by the seers and those Catholics disobedient to lawful Church authority. It is the present Bishop who asked Pope Francis not to condemn the apparitions, not to make a definitive judgment yet. Why? Many believe it is because these false apparitions are a big money maker. If the Church passed the obvious declaration of non credible it would end the hotel, religious items sales and restaurant businesses in Medjugorje. This is not a good reason for the Church not to declare the truth about these apparitions.
I have up until today wondered about the alleged apparitions at Garabandal. Now that I have read that Garabandal and Medjugorje are somehow related. I can say that for myself the Garabandal apparitions are false.
One heavenly blessing is that we are not obligated to believe in any private revelation.
True. We've known Medugorje is diabolic ever since heretical Charismatics began selling expensive "pilgrimages" there in the 1970's.
They destroyed all of the priests and parishes that fell for their fundamentalist hysteria and travel rackets. Three Popes later, the evil place is still in business. Why?!
The priests at the place Medjheads flock to were written agsinst by Paul VI in 1975. What more do we need to know than that really?
The fact that none of the fake "visionaries" have religious vocations proves that Mary never appeared at Medugorje. Those diabolic punks were just in it for the easy money. I remember when they toured the US, packing fundamentalist Catholic churches full of fools who literally buried them in cash.
They spawned an avalanche of greedy, globe-trotting racketeers like Christina Gallagher from Ireland who travelled with an evil priest and the late male con artist from Ukraine who also advertised himself as a Marian visionary. Both of them made fortunes from their blasphemies.
As millionaire P.T. Barnum of circus fame said: "Never give a sucker an even break. There's one born every minute".
One of the most active Medjugorge pilgrimage promoters here in the 1980's was an extremely creepy religious Order priest who was eventually retired and moved out of State for abusing a woman.
Another one was an equally unpleasant female travel agent who was proved to be actively involved in witchcraft. She and the abusive priest mentioned controlled the regional Medugorje travel racket, making heaps of money. A very large Catholic business establishment was their main base of operation.
Both of them also milked a huge nearby parish because the massively popular Pastor was a fanatical Mejhead. This sitting duck's legion of idiot groupies thought he was a canonizable saint bcause of his ostentatious, Marian-themed devotional practices which were all nostalgic form without substance.
He accepted numerous free trips to Medugorje for acting as a tour group chaplain and as a confessor at the phony shrine, all against his local bishop's orders. However, he wasn't evil. He was just a dotty vision-chaser who should have been retired years earlier. He presented nearly every fraudulent Marian visionary on the planet to SRO church crowds, making his normal congregants escape to other parishes. They didn't return after his death because the place was totally ruined by Charismatics.
These are not the words of Our Blessed Mother:
http://www.unitypublishing.com/Apparitions/Medjugorjecraig.html
2. (Question to Vicka) "Is the Blessed Mother calling all people on earth to be Catholic?"
(Vicka:) "No! The Blessed Mother says all religions are dear to her and her Son. She says it is we on earth who have made division."
(Page 119, The Visions of the Children, Connell)
3. (Interview with Marjana by Father Tomislav Vlasic)
Mirjana: "The Madonna always stresses that there is but one God, and that people have enforced unnatural separation. One cannot truly believe, be a true Christian, if he does not respect other religions as well. You do not really believe in God if you make fun of other religions."
(Father:) "What, then, is the role of Jesus Christ, if the Moslem religion is a good religion?"
(Mirjana:) "We did not discuss that." (The role of our Lord Jesus Christ) "She merely explained, and deplored, the lack of religious unity, ‘especially in the villages.’ She said that everybody’s religion should be respected, and of course one’s own." (Page 124, The Apparitions of Our Lady at Medjugorje, Kraljevic)
4. (Interview with Ivanka by Father Svetozar Kraljevic)
(Ivanka:) "The Madonna said that religions are separated in the earth, but the people of all religions are accepted by my Son."
These types of replies are very shallow it seems to me. If the devil is so much the cause of so many of these things at Medjugorje - is Satan also responsible for inducing or tricking people into massive confessions, hundreds of confessionals with thousands of stories of mass conversion s well? I guess so- and old mr. sulphur in encouraging people to pray the rosary, fast, and repent of their sins? It seems to me from accounts of various church saints that the devil is in fact terrified, I mean terrified of the rosary. Padre Pio said the rosary was his main weapon against satan. Every night in Medjugorje is Mass with many priests from around the world co-celebrating. The exposition of the Blessed Sacrament and the prayers and song was one of the most profound and beautiful and most powerful and prayerful experiences I have had. Old Satan encourages that too? HA that is way to funny to even imagine......Satan who tries to get us to denounce God and Jesus, encouraging us to worship the Blessed Sacrament. Do you know how silly that sounds? When we were at the Blessed Sacrament, we sang over and over, sometimes louder, sometimes softly, in unison, hundreds together " Agnus Dei, qui tollis peccata mundi, miserere nobis" , etc. The peace and holiness experienced in this led by the Franciscan priest is palpable. I bet Satan REALLY enjoyed that one that he deceived all of these crazy, mislead, weak Medjugorje-ites into!!!!!! It just goes to show that people who have not been there and experienced it really do not know what goes on there. They prefer to pile on many false stories and tales told and distort them more and more.
The apparitions which occur are obviously the key element, but the constant prayer, confession, return to sacraments, all of these are the hallmark of Medjugorje and are exactly why priests and Bishops who go there resoundingly say the fruits are obvious and beautiful and good. Satan is not leading these things and if you think so, I seriously question your spiritual discernment and makeup.
"No man can find salvation except in the Catholic Church. Outside the Catholic Church one can have everything except salvation. One can have honor, one can have the sacraments, one can sing alleluia, one can answer amen, one can have faith in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost, and preach it too, but never can one find salvation except in the Catholic Church." (Sermo ad Caesariensis Ecclesia plebem)
I think Tancred might smell brimstone in their future.
Yes it A CESS PIT GREED GREED AND FRAUDS RAKING IN THE USD,this bishop is right the Frans priests are in on it the bishop of mostar is right a show and the frauds so called seerers raking it in prob the arch is getting a envelop also shame on u why not agree with this himble bishop or have u arch bishop been bought to say the right thing SHAME ON U .
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