Friday, November 18, 2016
Pope Rages at Catholic Cardinals
[Vox] In an interview with Raymond Arroyo on EWTN's The World Over, Edward Pentin stated that his sources have confirmed with him that "Pope Francis not happy at all," with the letter of the four Cardinals on the matter of heretical clauses and sacrilegious actions in Amoris Laetitia. Pentin continued that he, the Pope, is "boiling with rage." He had been "given two months," to respond to the four, and has refused.
"Boiling with rage."
How very sad.
To you priests and bishops in Rome who are faithful to the Church and know first hand what is happening there, whom do you really serve by your silence?
Do you serve Christ and through Him, His flock for their salvation?
What are you afraid of?
Your priesthood is worth nothing if you allow this to continue.
Read further at Vox...
AMDG
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47 comments:
You are right. Each priest must defend the fullness of the Faith. Not to do so is to fail Christ and His people badly. Not to speak out at this point is to choose other than Christ.
Boiling with rage?
"I don’t lose any sleep over it, I just continue on the path that has preceded me, I follow the Council. As for the opinions, you always have to distinguish the intent with which they are made. When there’s no bad intent, they help us to move forward. Other times it’s immediately clear that… they are made with bad intent in order to foment divisions. You can see immediately that certain types of rigorism come from a lack of something, from a desire to protect one’s own sad dissatisfactions".
-Pope Francis
I could barf when I read that quote from Francis. He is simply a clergyman of his era in Argentina: liberal, leftist, Marxist inspired. He is of that generation which will soon die, thanks be to God. Post Vat II messed up and entrenched in their errors. This too, shall pass. But at what a cost for souls...
What one says publicly and what actually happens behind the scenes are often two different things.
We have had hints from various sources of the pope's true nature.
Examples: The pope's rumored outburst at Domus Sanctae Marthae upon learning of the book written by several cardinals prior to the end of the most recent synod.
The pope became visibly angry when in Mexico he was physically pulled towards the crowd by someone.
The pope also showed anger when speaking with people about the bishop in Osorno, Chile.
The words he used to attack other prelates at the end of the synod.
There is every indication that the pope does "boil with rage," but that fact is kept as far from the public's knowledge as possible.
Nevertheless, these things have a way of being leaked by those who witness them. The Vatican is a complex place.
If the 4 cardinals wanted clarification, they could surely have gone to the Pope privately, talked to him openly and frankly, aired their misgivings and listened to what he might want to say to them. By airing their dissent publicly and threatening acts of correction, they show clearly that they only want to defy him. I am not surprised he is unhappy with that - who wouldn't be? The cardinals are like the Pharisees who want to catch out Our Lord with clever questions and get him to condemn himself out of his own mouth - in order to demonstrate their own power and authority. Our Lord does not play their game, neither should Pope Francis. They can only be ignored.
They failed at Vatican 2. This is just the latest fail. Done.
Seattle kim
Francis is honest,he is following & implementing the V2 council.
So the Pope says either the Cardinals have good intent and we can move forward (where exactly?) or bad intent in which case they have sad dissatisfactions. So why does he not say which of the alternatives applies here instead of just leaving a smear about 'sad dissatisfactions'. This is just an attack on the Cardinals and no way answers their questions or carries out his job of guiding the faithful. "Feed my sheep" said the Lord three times.
Boiling with rage to the point of a possible fatal heart attack?
Apparently they did go to him privately, and he refused to answer. Then they put it in a private letter, and he ignored it. Only then did they go public.
I forget what Saint said,
"Where there is rage there is pride. Where there is pride there is no holiness."
Pope Francis appears to have found that shoe to fit, and is walking around in it. . .
The four Cardinals followed ecclesiastical protocol in submitting the letter privately in September. Indeed more than ample questioning by 800,000 laity in petition, 45 theologians preceded the submission of the letter. Pope Francis chose to ignore the letter of the four Cardinals in contradiction to simple etiquette, let alone Christian charity.
Why does this man insist upon a deference offered to the Chair of Peter when he consistently debases the office he holds? The two-thousand year old Magisterium has been waiting for a South American Jesuit to correct it?
I think not.
Answer the “dubia” Pope” Francis and stop gaming your flock.
Friend, you understand the situation not at all. It might be of help to you if you read up on the long history of the papacy which will show you that numerous popes had to be corrected by Cardinals and even laymen.
Your characterization of these Cardinals as Pharisees indicates a need for more historical study on your part.
Their letter was sent privately. It was ignored. Cardinal Burke met with the pope several days before the letter was made public.
The pope has said that he wanted "parrhesia" and told the youth at WYD to "hagan lio."
The pope can put a stop to all this by merely answering the questions with five easy words. It would take less than two minutes to dictate to his secretary, then he could go to lunch.
The fact that he would allow division in the Church rather than taking his own advice and addressing the issues of his sheep speaks volumes for his character.
The cardinals will be ignored by the pope, but they are not going to be ignored by the Church.
You think the Polish and African bishops don't think exactly the same as the 4?
I'm glad he's boiling with rage.
Traditional Pewsitter, reader of The Pope Francis Little Book of Insults.
Back atcha Papa rigid.
"Reply" doesn't seem to be working, so I will say to Anonymous on Nov. 19 at 2:00 am that the Cardinals did address the Pope privately in September. They waited almost two months and then Card. Burke met privately with him on Nov. 10. It was only on Nov. 14 that the Cardinals announced that the Pope had indicated he was not going to answer and they published their letter. They are following a proper procedure. The Pope could have stopped that procedure at any time up to Nov. 14. Even now, he could simply answer No, Yes, Yes, Yes, and Yes, thus confirming the constant teaching and practice of the Church and ending the confusion and controversy. His silence indicates that he wants to do something else.
Speech that looks like the good ol' marxist dialectic.
I think Pope Francis is saying that 'the Council' (Dignitatis Humanae?) and the last Synod on the Church's traditional doctrine on Primacy of Conscience and the integrity of the Internal Forum more than adequately answered the 'Dubia' of the four Cardinals and the 13 before them.
This little dictator of the Katholik Banana Republik spits on the faithfulness of abandoned spouses who have honored their public wedding vows, some of us having lost everything including our precious children to our unrepentant adulterous spouses and their lovers, and he refuses to explain to us why(via the dubia), yet "he rages"?
What kind of a man does this? How can those around him not see how debased this man is and the real violence he is doing to Jesus Christ?
This tyrant is the type of man who blames the woman he violates for dressing so provocatively, rather than repenting, seeking forgiveness and doing appropriate penance. This man was never fit for the priesthood from the beginning. His promises at his ordination should be found to be null. The unequivocal evidence of his long term psychological incapacity for the priesthood is on public display, now, for years.
This sewage needs to be flushed from the Vatican.
Karl
Did the Pope give any reply to the letter of 50 catholic theologians and philosophers about the Synod's document "Instrumentum laboris"?
And why did he reply the letter of the Buenos Aires bishops about Amoris Laetitia?
Who is the main pharisee if not the Pope himself?
Anonymous,
Do you know that Jorge has not been asked to address this in private?
It seems to me you are being a tad too presumptuous in these circumstances.
As to this: I am not surprised he is unhappy with that - who wouldn't be?
His pronouncements are publicly displayed, if they need clarification, it is completely appropriate to be asked to do to do so in public and to be apprised that there will be consequences in the face of a refusal to do so.
To be upset by this is the behavior of a child, not an adult.
Karl
This quote looks like good ol' outdated marxist dialectic.
Look, I'm no fan of Francis, but this is all third-hand hearsay. Sources Pentin doesn't name say the pope is 'boiling with rage'...it's like Chinese whispers. For all we know he was 'boiling [his dinner] with sage]', and this is how it gets distorted.
As for the pope getting angry in Mexico, so what? Donald Trump gets angry at Mexicans too. Everybody gets angry at Mexicans.
It's not like he's called a council and made them declare him infallible. Now that would be something to get angry about!
Dear Fr.Spadaro,
It does not need a papal answer to five straightforward questions on Catholic faith and morals, respectfully submitted in a letter by four cardinals two months ago for your boss to " condemn himself out of his own mouth". He's been doing that consistently and with ever increasing frequency for the last three and a half years, thank you very much.
Disgruntled Sheep
The Pope, from what I have read, has ALREADY been confronted privately........to no avail. There have also been multiple letters from both laity and clergy asking him to clarify A.L. This Exhortation has been public since April, and this is November, and he has NOT YET CLARIFIED, at least not directly. You cannot expect the laity nor the Bishops to have several different disciplines in regard to marriage and at the same time adhere to ONE HOLY CATHOLIC CHURCH, because of the confusion in A.L. It MUST be clarified.
Anon 2:00 AM You're kidding...right? 2:56 has it right...that this Pope and all he does is simply the logical extension of the Vatican II revolt which must one day be completely repudiated and overturned.
Seattle Kim, In a certain sense it can be said that they succeeded at Vatican II- at least in the short run. Keep fighting as if your life depended on it- because it does!
And what about those faithful Catholics who would like clarification ? Maybe you think they should be just ignored too, or do you think we should all get a private audience. Some chance.
They did send it privately. After two months they made it public since he refused to answer. I hardly think that is defying him. The Pope is like the Pharisees. They wanted to keep divorce and remarriage like Moses allowed. Christ said that it adultery. In three Gospels he said it was adultery. The Pope agrees the Pharisees and thinks that we who follow Christ's VERY clear teaching on this are "unmerciful" and a host of other things. I stand with Christ and all of the Popes before the current one who stood with him.
I just wish he was struck dumb so he would stop with the off the cuff interviews.
Tony V....gaybriel's equally inane twin.
The only pharisee in this disgusting spectacle is Francis, who arrogantly fails to confirm the brethren as Christ commanded him to do and who wants to impose his heretical new doctrines unquestioned by anyone, like the true totalitarian Marxist he is. The cardinals, like every baptized Catholic, have indeed the right to a clarification from the man appointed to guard and pass on the Faith when he writes what is contrary to that Faith. Anyone trying to excuse Francis in this further evidence of his dictatorial and vindictive arrogance merely wants to promote the same heretical agenda he does. You have already been defeated, heretics, for the Mother of God told us that Her Immaculate Heart would triumph---she who is the Hammer of Heretics.
With Shakespeare, "Methinks thou dost protest too much".
I hope more rise up against Francis ,,,in the Vatican and elsewhere.
Today, when he had his little ceremony inducting his latest batch of cardinals, 13 of which can vote...and unlike what's been said in the press...not all are liberals (but the 3 Americans are) there was no pre-game show....when assembled group of "old cardinals" meet in conclave with the Pope to approve his "new ones".
Apparently this tradition was skipped this year, because there is so much ill will in the Vatican for this Pope that most were not keen to attend/acknowledge the new men. Good.
This business of the Dubia issued against Francis by the 4 Cardinals and Francis not answering is very bad....for the Pope.
I hope more and more raise their voices against Francis everywhere and forcehim and his people to quit.
Damian Malliapalli
This comment won't be allowed.
Paul VI - Benedict XVI was just as bad if not worse than Francis.
The ONLY difference is that Francis is honest & quite open about his modernism communism & apostasy.
All he is doing is implementing the 2nd Vatican Council which happened over 50 YEARS AGO!
You all should've outraged years ago because the Novus Ordo is EVIL!!
Why Bishop Fellay wants to sell out to the Novus Ordo is beyond me.I'm a Sedevacantist and it pains me to see 5 decades of hard work & dedication by the SSPX parishioners being flushed away by Bishop Fellay.
Are you kidding? You think that would work with this man? If so, you haven't been paying close attention.
Do you live along the border of Mexico and the US? Try it then talk.
He is a true follower of the Council.
"It's not like he's called a council and made them declare him infallible."
They did. It was in Vatican I. 18 July 1870
Karl, your wife is no better than an apostate. That she has the gall to present herself as a Christian and receive Holy Communion is diabolical.
Don't give in to wrath or despair. Even if faithless prelates refuse to see the great evil committed, God certainly does, and will reward her likewise.
The first issue is the question of communion for the divorced and remarried. The final document of the synod specifically cut out the passage proposing this. Pope Francis has reintroduced the idea in A.L. The documents of the Synod and the development of the Relatio Synodi need to be studied to see this. I have set out my analysis of the transition from the Instrumentum Laboris (IL) or working document of the final session of the Synod to the Relatio Synodi (RS) at:
http://guildofblessedtitus.blogspot.co.uk/2016/01/the-synod-on-family-thefinal-documents_20.html
I wrote:
'The path of accompaniment and discernment guides the faithful to an awareness of their situation before God. Conversation with the priest, in the internal forum, contributes to the formation of a correct judgment on what hinders the possibility of a fuller participation in the life of Church and Church practice which can foster it and make it grow. Given that gradualness is not in the law itself (cf. FC 34), this discernment can never prescind from the Gospel demands of truth and charity as proposed by the Church.'
It is important to note whilst there is a reference to the internal forum this is not a reference to the internal forum where somebody, in the absence of an annulment of their previous marriage, sincerely believes that the first marriage was invalid and therefore they can receive communion – a version of the internal forum that was explicitly condemned by St John Paul II in Familiaris Consortio. Thus the whole idea of a Way of Penance leading to them being admitted to communion, as suggested in clauses 122 and 123 of the IL, has been dropped.
"It's not like he's called a council and made them declare him infallible."
Oh? All the Pope's Grima Wormtongues have been declaring that even his airplane interviews and recalled-from-memory chats with an atheist are magisterial. Sheesh. Now that's something to get angry about!
You forget Pentin's professional handling of Cardinal Kasper's denial of saying of the Africans "they should not tell us too much what we have to do.”
Mr. Pentin is a serious Roman Catholic and a highly regarded journalist, not given to playing to any audience.
Karl You are quite right. This man should never have been a priest. And yes the innocent party to divorce. The one who suffers. The one who looses everything. This person is totally ignored. Where is the justice in a Church when all the attention is given to the adulterer. The innocent party is just cast aside as so much rubbish. How hypocritical is that? The Church has lost it's way very badly.
Interestingly, JPII was given a tracheotomy (ostensibly because of his very bad cold) so he could not repent of, nor warn the Faithful of, what he and his confederates had been up to over the 26 years of his Vatican II pontificate. Let's give Francis a chance to retract and repent.
Thank you for publishing my comment.I apologize for saying it wouldn't be published. :)
Twenty seven years into this nightmare, I still hope for a reconciliation with my wife. That has been my desire from the outset of this misery. All this time I have waited for the Catholic Church to intervene on behalf of our valid, sacramental marriage, which I have defended in two separate(more than 20 yrs apart) canonical proceedings which both resulted in findings against nullity.
It would be wonderful for our combined seven children and 16 grandchildren to see repentance, forgiveness and healing after such an ordeal. But, this will not happen unless the entire Catholic Church does an about face.
It is not me who stands, unforgiving or unwilling to work to heal, "what God has joined together". Although, I am not willing to expose my life, futher, to someone whose track record exhibits animosity and worse, toward the one she promised fidelity to, before each other, our families, the Catholic Church and God. However, if there were to be true repentance, it remains my obligation, to work towards a complete restoration of our marriage.
This is, at least to me, where I must part ways with a Church that accepts a lesser standard. A lesser standard is neither just, nor merciful.
I wish that the four Cardinals would present our marriage as an example to the Pope and ask him to address it before our children.
I have kept the door open. The powers that be already know this and have since 1989.
Pray for us all.
Thank you.
Karl
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