Why is this Pope Determined to Recognize the SSPX?
(Rome) Is Pope Francis soon set to take an extraordinary step in favor of the SSPX? "It is a common opinion in the Vatican, and particularly among those who are close to the Pontifical Commission Ecclesia Dei, which is responsible for the Lefebvrian dossier that the Pope will soon perform an arbitrary and spectacular gesture towards the Society of St. Pius X," as the Vatican expert Marco Tosatti writes in his blog. The long conversation between the Pope and the Superior General of the SSPX, Bishop Bernard Fellay, on April 1, was "certainly a sign in that direction."This is the question hanging in the room, just why a Pope who "certainly has no sympathy for the Conservatives, and permits that the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate are put through the meat grinder for years because of the mere suspicion of, 'Lefebvrian tendencies', seems ready again to fully recognize the former schismatics. There are two possible answers in this issue," says Tosatti. The penchant for spectacular gestures The first reason is the predisposition of character of the Pope, which is his desire and satisfaction of making some sensational gestures like the embrace with the Russian Orthodox Patriarch Kirill I in Cuba. Gestures that neither John Paul II. nor Benedict XVI. were granted, his two direct predecessors whose pontificates he regards with some inner distance. In this case, both had endeavored with great dedication for it. Suitable areas for spectacular gestures include the SSPX. The approach under John Paul II. culminated with the declared excommunication by Rome in the exact opposite direction. Benedict XVI. received Bishop Fellay soon after his election in audience, and thus laid the foundation for the talks not aborted since then. In 2009 he lifted the Decree of Excommunication and in May 2012, canonical recognition seemed virtually certain. But things turned out differently, and with the choice of the Argentine Pope every prospect seemed further away than ever. The assessment that tradition is obsolete The second reason is a strategic analysis of the Pope and thus the appearance, of how Pope Francis sees the traditionalists. Despite their considerable strength, ( "some say a million," said Tosatti) the pope does not consider them numerically dangerous. According to the logic that Francis expressed concern in February 2014 to the Czech bishops, he sees the interest in the traditional form of the Roman Rite as "just a fad". In his opinion, the views and positions, also the theology, of tradition is outdated. History will prove them wrong. The Pope represents, according to this opinion, that self aware overconfidence in the victory of progressive thinking that thinks it is rightis by definition. The Pope would be strengthened in this opinion by his observation that the influence of the traditionalists in the Church and the mass media seems low. Their recognition and regularizatiin is therefore a cost-effective opportunity to prove his own generosity and fatherhood with a spectacular media-step. Closing a soon to be 30 year old wound would contribute to Francis' entry in church history, even if in his view, it would only be the size of a footnote. Text: Giuseppe NardiImage: MiLTrans: Tancred vekron99@hotmail.comAMDG
They have no choice but to recognise SSPX ,their recognising everything else on the planet,they can't celebrate Martin Luther ,Hinduism ,Buddhism ,islam,and Judaism and reject a Catholic group without looking extremely ridiculous.
I found "Vatican expert" Marco Tosatti attempt to read Pope Francis' mind very unconvincing. By the way, "Vatican experts" have been wrong countless times in their "expert" opinions about what's going on in Rome.
In fact, I laugh whenever a media person is described as an "expert" or "insider." The more appropriate term for such a person is a "gossip."
I firmly believe that it is not important as to why the Pope may formally recognise the SSPX as a full member of the Catholic Church - all that matters is that God may be using this to help turn the Church back onto the right path. Throughout history God has used the wayward plans of men to in fact enable His purpose to be achieved.
My take on Pope Francis and SPPX is that as the curtain is lifted slowly on the new, improved kasperian katholicism, those miscreants who cling to “old ways” will need a corral to inhabit. Still on the ranch, but anesthetized with their own quaint concerns while slowly dying out, they won’t be so antagonistic and bitter toward the new stock on the rest of the spread. Everyone smiling, cash flow still running, less complaining, and maintaining the vital statistics for a while so everyone thinks things are OK, at least by the numbers. And somebody looks ever so open minded and merciful. Two birds, one stone. Fraudulent.
If I were studying for the priesthood, I wouldn't mind studying in tents and sleeping on the ground. It's a hard life, but it's also good training. Still, these photos and the presentation about the sspx seminary coming up is wonderful! Does anyone know what they're going to do with Winona?
May God continue to fill the Society's members with grace and wisdom. Pope Francis is interested firstly because he has to be; dangerous as he is to the Catholic Church - and foolish as his basic stance is so often - he is no fool. Secondly, though no doubt less importantly, some of us have asked it of him (he has read a biography of Archbishop Lefebvre many times, and cannot but admit that his mission in Africa and with the Society was blessed, is successful, and continues to be powerfully graced .. a fearful thing for the conciliar church leadership to face - or admit).
It is also part of our Lady's repeated messages to us, the seeds of victory even amid the darkest trials; if only we have eyes to see and hearts ready to open to what is set before us:
I still think the Pope does only what he is told to do. He doesn't seem to be very intelligent. Bergolio is nothing more than a front man for the Jesuits, IMO.
I attend an independent sedevacantist chapel comprised mostly of SSPX members who feared these talks with Rome and the possibility of being United to a false religion.
The election of a Pope is an administrative action. The Pope, no matter how bad, is still the Pope. A necessary condition for salvation is to be subject to the Roman Pontiff. The Sedevacantist mentality puts one outside of the Church. That's why the SSPX is the only way to go.
The funny thing is, Steve,-I've yet to meet one SSPX, R&R , fssp member or even conservative Novus Ordite who behave as if they are subject to Francis. Quite the opposite! It's amusing to read the blogs where he is trashed for being un-Catholic and teaching heresy by people who believe they are his 'loyal subjects.'
For what it's worth, I think you're all sedevacantists who won't admit it. Otherwise, you should be attending his masses and not the ones he denigrates as 'fads' (the TLM.). And you should be promoting his ideologies. And for sure not talking smack About him. That's how a subject behaves.
Steve CalovichApril 7, 2016 at 6:25 AM I still think the Pope does only what he is told to do. He doesn't seem to be very intelligent. Bergolio is nothing more than a front man for the Jesuits, IMO.
Intelligent, no, there I agree. Maniplated, perhaps; yet just as much manipulating of others .. where he can. Not being a fool does not require a high level of intellect, Steve, only a smidgeon of cunning or craft. Sadly, highly intelligent souls can be manipulated not only those easily led, even the arch-manipulators among us can find themselves played at their own game. As for the Jesuits, a healthy dose of suppression might not go amiss - if only to allow those truly dedicated to their founding mission to seek (and maybe received) purposeful revival .. on that score, I don't hold out much hope, not even when Our Lady's warnings finally smack them up.
'I attend an independent sedevacantist chapel comprised mostly of SSPX members who feared these talks with Rome and the possibility of being United to a false religion.
Seattle kim'
Yes, I can understand the fear, but phobias - unchallenged - can stunt one's ability to use reason. If you (and your chosen community of faith, itself a protestant - not a Catholic - view) should receive papal approval, allowing you to do all that you do, and like, and belief, would that alter you or him? Him, of course; you will have remained faithful to your call, he understood the previous papal policy was wrong; now we come to the crux, like a pope or papal policy or not, what is one of the chief signifiers of the Catholic Church in communion with Rome .. communion with a pope (good, bad, indifferent, wayward or dangerous as he may be) or accepting a whole slew of patently failed heretical or semi-heretical pastoral solutions? Merely acceptance of or longing for communion with the pope, none of the rest - that is what it means to belong to God's beloved called to be saints at Rome (as opposed to retain certain Catholic characteristics, necessary and absolute as these can be).
'Tancred - And the shocking thing is: popes have been heretical in the past.'
Some have indeed held heretical views, and a few have advanced them (as opinion or policy, not as the Faith). Pope Francis, alas, that this diabolical playing with fire to the enth degree .. so much so, I suspect, he could be the first living pope to be accused and ajudged as holding heretical opinions as a matter of faith (his beliefs, not the Faith) by his solidly orthodox Catholic peers (however few these may be); but on this Our Lady has warned us many times, so we should not and must not fear - but, as laymen or simple priests and religious, etc, we must resist, militantly, recalling Athanasius, accepting what the Faith can accept and rejecting all else (however it is packaged; thank God, this the SSPX seems still able to do, even if its members and ex-members or contra-members take fright).
What to make of this? One thing for sure, I don't trust this situation AT ALL!! Nor his motives for all this. A way of controlling the SSPX? That way 'traditional' Catholics would have no port in the storm. That said, the good Lord has a way of turning the tables on evil. He will always have our backs.
Bishop Fellay did not learn the poignant lesson of flirting with Benedict XVI at great cost to The SSPX - loss of about one hundred priests. This is a characteristic liberal modernist manoeuvre to lure him in and then he'll find out what a mess he has got himself into - just like L'Institut du Bon Pasteur or Papa Stronsay community. The problem is that the two other bishops of The SSPX appear willing to commit spiritual suicide with their leader as well. Appalling!
I am sedevacantist but if this union of sspx and novus ordo bothers you,pray and make personal sacrifices by giving up personal pleasures,and offer them up to the Lord for the spiritual/moral well being of your local chapel.
I'm a sede too but I wish everyone who calls themselves Roman Catholic would obey and hold to the traditions of the Catholic Faith pre-1950 (including fasting after midnight for Holy Communion) Have the clergy receive valid traditional holy orders and parishioners receive valid Sacraments. I pray for this to happen daily.the division and different camps is not good for souls.
Why would Francis welcome the SSPX... to crush them. Seize their property, close their seminaries etc. Not at first of course, all smiles and brotherhood. Then come the changes like the FSSP... the NO liturgy, accepting non SSPX trained priests (who promptly poison the well). No NO not this pontificate. Good things come to those who wait. Please Bishop Fellay, please wait! As for dying out, there are families in my area that would jump at the chance to have a SSPX chapel in our area.
They have no choice but to recognise SSPX ,their recognising everything else on the planet,they can't celebrate Martin Luther ,Hinduism ,Buddhism ,islam,and Judaism and reject a Catholic group without looking extremely ridiculous.
ReplyDeleteWhy? John Paul II did just that.
DeleteOf course he did! Only the Pope can choose the Bishops. He's either the Pope or he isn't.
DeleteA deal with the Society would be the perfect foil to divert attention from his attempts to destroy marriage, confession, and the eucharist.
ReplyDeleteHe is the most subtle of all beasts.
Not to mention, celebrating the 500th anniversary of the Protestant Revolt and declaring Paul VI a "Saint".
Delete@Deacon Augustine. That would sum it up. At first, I thought that that was a sincere gesture. Two steps forward, one step back.
DeleteI found "Vatican expert" Marco Tosatti attempt to read Pope Francis' mind very unconvincing. By the way, "Vatican experts" have been wrong countless times in their "expert" opinions about what's going on in Rome.
ReplyDeleteIn fact, I laugh whenever a media person is described as an "expert" or "insider." The more appropriate term for such a person is a "gossip."
Jonathan Simmons
The penchant for spectacular [but in the long run empty] gestures.
ReplyDeleteSmoke and mirrors is how this papacy works, as I'm sure the canny Bishop Fellay recognises, even (or especially) were he to be tempted with a red hat.
ReplyDeleteI firmly believe that it is not important as to why the Pope may formally recognise the SSPX as a full member of the Catholic Church - all that matters is that God may be using this to help turn the Church back onto the right path.
ReplyDeleteThroughout history God has used the wayward plans of men to in fact enable His purpose to be achieved.
Good thinking. 'The LORD traps the wicked in the work of their own hands.'
DeleteMy take on Pope Francis and SPPX is that as the curtain is lifted slowly on the new, improved kasperian katholicism, those miscreants who cling to “old ways” will need a corral to inhabit. Still on the ranch, but anesthetized with their own quaint concerns while slowly dying out, they won’t be so antagonistic and bitter toward the new stock on the rest of the spread. Everyone smiling, cash flow still running, less complaining, and maintaining the vital statistics for a while so everyone thinks things are OK, at least by the numbers. And somebody looks ever so open minded and merciful.
ReplyDeleteTwo birds, one stone.
Fraudulent.
Anon. said:
Delete"Still on the ranch, but anesthetized with their own quaint concerns while slowly dying out,"
You are so wrong...
PREDACEOUS
BARRACUDAS
You came through us
By Christ’s own will
For Him our blood
We gladly spill…
Seize the oars!
Others cower
Others weak
Silly soldiers
A mess they wreak…
Seize the oars!
Melchisedech men
In St. Paul’s caste
Rise from the deck
On Peter’s Barque mast…
Seize the oars!
Predaceous barracudas
Fight, til your hands bleed,
Then throw them overboard
And steer towards the Creed…
Seize the oars!
Vogon!
DeleteDying out? A look at the new seminary might change his mind: http://www.newseminaryproject.org/category/videos/
DeleteIf I were studying for the priesthood, I wouldn't mind studying in tents and sleeping on the ground. It's a hard life, but it's also good training. Still, these photos and the presentation about the sspx seminary coming up is wonderful! Does anyone know what they're going to do with Winona?
DeleteThe seminary in Winona will become a boys school....eventually.
DeleteMay God continue to fill the Society's members with grace and wisdom. Pope Francis is interested firstly because he has to be; dangerous as he is to the Catholic Church - and foolish as his basic stance is so often - he is no fool. Secondly, though no doubt less importantly, some of us have asked it of him (he has read a biography of Archbishop Lefebvre many times, and cannot but admit that his mission in Africa and with the Society was blessed, is successful, and continues to be powerfully graced .. a fearful thing for the conciliar church leadership to face - or admit).
ReplyDeleteIt is also part of our Lady's repeated messages to us, the seeds of victory even amid the darkest trials; if only we have eyes to see and hearts ready to open to what is set before us:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBP4m4PfmHg&nohtml5=False&spfreload=5
I still think the Pope does only what he is told to do. He doesn't seem to be very intelligent. Bergolio is nothing more than a front man for the Jesuits, IMO.
DeleteI attend an independent sedevacantist chapel comprised mostly of SSPX members who feared these talks with Rome and the possibility of being United to a false religion.
DeleteSeattle kim
The election of a Pope is an administrative action. The Pope, no matter how bad, is still the Pope. A necessary condition for salvation is to be subject to the Roman Pontiff. The Sedevacantist mentality puts one outside of the Church. That's why the SSPX is the only way to go.
DeleteThe funny thing is, Steve,-I've yet to meet one SSPX, R&R , fssp member or even conservative Novus Ordite who behave as if they are subject to Francis. Quite the opposite! It's amusing to read the blogs where he is trashed for being un-Catholic and teaching heresy by people who believe they are his 'loyal subjects.'
DeleteSeattle Kim
For what it's worth, I think you're all sedevacantists who won't admit it. Otherwise, you should be attending his masses and not the ones he denigrates as 'fads' (the TLM.). And you should be promoting his ideologies. And for sure not talking smack
DeleteAbout him. That's how a subject behaves.
And the shocking thing is: popes have been heretical in the past.
DeleteSteve CalovichApril 7, 2016 at 6:25 AM
DeleteI still think the Pope does only what he is told to do. He doesn't seem to be very intelligent. Bergolio is nothing more than a front man for the Jesuits, IMO.
Intelligent, no, there I agree. Maniplated, perhaps; yet just as much manipulating of others .. where he can. Not being a fool does not require a high level of intellect, Steve, only a smidgeon of cunning or craft. Sadly, highly intelligent souls can be manipulated not only those easily led, even the arch-manipulators among us can find themselves played at their own game. As for the Jesuits, a healthy dose of suppression might not go amiss - if only to allow those truly dedicated to their founding mission to seek (and maybe received) purposeful revival .. on that score, I don't hold out much hope, not even when Our Lady's warnings finally smack them up.
His instructors and contemporaries thought he was brilliant and I'm inclined to agree.
Delete'I attend an independent sedevacantist chapel comprised mostly of SSPX members who feared these talks with Rome and the possibility of being United to a false religion.
DeleteSeattle kim'
Yes, I can understand the fear, but phobias - unchallenged - can stunt one's ability to use reason. If you (and your chosen community of faith, itself a protestant - not a Catholic - view) should receive papal approval, allowing you to do all that you do, and like, and belief, would that alter you or him? Him, of course; you will have remained faithful to your call, he understood the previous papal policy was wrong; now we come to the crux, like a pope or papal policy or not, what is one of the chief signifiers of the Catholic Church in communion with Rome .. communion with a pope (good, bad, indifferent, wayward or dangerous as he may be) or accepting a whole slew of patently failed heretical or semi-heretical pastoral solutions? Merely acceptance of or longing for communion with the pope, none of the rest - that is what it means to belong to God's beloved called to be saints at Rome (as opposed to retain certain Catholic characteristics, necessary and absolute as these can be).
'Tancred - And the shocking thing is: popes have been heretical in the past.'
DeleteSome have indeed held heretical views, and a few have advanced them (as opinion or policy, not as the Faith). Pope Francis, alas, that this diabolical playing with fire to the enth degree .. so much so, I suspect, he could be the first living pope to be accused and ajudged as holding heretical opinions as a matter of faith (his beliefs, not the Faith) by his solidly orthodox Catholic peers (however few these may be); but on this Our Lady has warned us many times, so we should not and must not fear - but, as laymen or simple priests and religious, etc, we must resist, militantly, recalling Athanasius, accepting what the Faith can accept and rejecting all else (however it is packaged; thank God, this the SSPX seems still able to do, even if its members and ex-members or contra-members take fright).
What to make of this? One thing for sure, I don't trust this situation AT ALL!! Nor his motives for all this. A way of controlling the SSPX? That way 'traditional' Catholics would have no port in the storm. That said, the good Lord has a way of turning the tables on evil. He will always have our backs.
ReplyDeleteThe SSPX shouldn't regularize under this Pope. I believe this was a canonical visitation required by all bishops and major superiors.
ReplyDeleteBishop Fellay did not learn the poignant lesson of flirting with Benedict XVI at great cost to The SSPX - loss of about one hundred priests. This is a characteristic liberal modernist manoeuvre to lure him in and then he'll find out what a mess he has got himself into - just like L'Institut du Bon Pasteur or Papa Stronsay community. The problem is that the two other bishops of The SSPX appear willing to commit spiritual suicide with their leader as well. Appalling!
ReplyDeleteI am sedevacantist but if this union of sspx and novus ordo bothers you,pray and make personal sacrifices by giving up personal pleasures,and offer them up to the Lord for the spiritual/moral well being of your local chapel.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteThe Blessed Lord continues to purge His Church. Amen! Amen! What need we fear?
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteNo fear here Bro,just a friendly suggestion.
DeleteI am a sedevacantist and I see his as a good thing. More SSPX will leave for sede chapels. Yeay!
ReplyDeleteSeattle kim
I'm a sede too but I wish everyone who calls themselves Roman Catholic would obey and hold to the traditions of the Catholic Faith pre-1950 (including fasting after midnight for Holy Communion)
DeleteHave the clergy receive valid traditional holy orders and parishioners receive valid Sacraments.
I pray for this to happen daily.the division and different camps is not good for souls.
I wish they'd restore the pre-1910 Psalter and fasts.
DeleteWhy would Francis welcome the SSPX... to crush them. Seize their property, close their seminaries etc. Not at first of course, all smiles and brotherhood. Then come the changes like the FSSP... the NO liturgy, accepting non SSPX trained priests (who promptly poison the well). No NO not this pontificate. Good things come to those who wait. Please Bishop Fellay, please wait!
ReplyDeleteAs for dying out, there are families in my area that would jump at the chance to have a SSPX chapel in our area.
Love the "poisoning the well" imagery.
DeleteNone of these things have come to pass.
DeleteYou're right--it's been in the works forever. Lots of squirrelly SSPXers now occupy either the resistance or sedevacantist camps.
DeleteSeattle Kim
Did you consult a scientific pollster?
DeleteNo just basing the info on all the people I know locally.
ReplyDelete