I read this excerpt and, having been an altar boy in the early to mid-sixties, can't honestly say that I find any of these puerile high-jinks especially shocking.
I go to the last line of the Pope's: "We had fun, and we really enjoyed serving at Mass."
My brother, a mere working-class boy of 9, took his varied, complex duties as altar server for the TLM very serious. He loved every minute of it as far as I could tell. I, as his sister, was so proud of him. There was no envy on the girls' part, I might add. This was manly work, serving OurLord in such a manner. It appears Jorge's formation was deficient and coarse.
He has exposed himself , what a shame . Whom to blame ? His parents , his Parish Priests or the environment in which he grew up ? Did he learn the catechism ? Have we to blame the school he attended. Right from youth he lacked discipline and so what can we expect from him as an elder and POPE ! He must have set a very bad example to his companions.He is a confused creature right from his childhood and no wonder even his Jesuit seminary life had a very little effect on his person , he must have duped all his superiors . Does he become serious , at least now ? Fear of God ... absolutely zero . He may even dare to say "who is God to judge me". What a pity ! He is the Vicar of Christ. He is confusing the whole world now.How many millions of souls will be lost and he has to face the judge,net of God. Let us pray for his conversion
I remember that our liberal instructors always talked about the "dark" days when everything was in Latin and supposedly really oppressive. It always sounded great to me and although it was the early 70s, and I'd never heard of Gommar de Pauw, I always asked for Latin Mass, but mostly because it seemed to upset my leftist religion instructors whose insecurities and weaknesses I always tried to exploit, just because.
Well, I do remember it and am grateful that it is in the past. Altar servers were given over to "mumbo jumbo" repeating nonsense syllables whose meaning escaped us. I remember the fly and wax specked altar clothes and shabby vestments and priest standing at the altar scratching their backsides as they bent over the altar saying Mass. I am sorry, but the liturgical changes of the Second Vatican Council have been life-giving to our faith.
With doses of 'clown masses' meaningless liturgical dances, seductive 'Tango masses'- a particular enjoyment for our, 'believe in very little of substance' Pope Francis, all part of the modern mind set to destroy what which 'The faith of our Fathers' truly believed. In short, our current pontiff is the head of a 'demolition company' which has little, if any, concern for souls.
I think if a father is devout, even the youngest sons tend to give Our Lord His due. If the Father is coarse and ribald in regards to the Mass, things of the Church, the children will follow. What do we know of Jorge's father?
I think it's very unlikely he really thought these things as a child. More likely he is projecting his current prejudices against Catholicism onto his younger self.
I recall having to move 'the book'. One time the heel of my shoe got caught in the hem of my cassock and, with a great ripping noise, I fell forward up the stairs with 'the book' splaying out in front of me. The priest asked if I was all right, helped me up, allowed me the dignity of finishing my task, quietly replaced the tabs indicating the various readings, and carried on. In later years I came to view that incident and many other similar ones (I could barely see without my glasses but refused to wear them 'in public') with humour and nostalgia.
In this instance, I am inclined to give the Pope a pass on his (obviously) fond recollections.
Mr. Ronan, your incident was occasioned by an accident, not by any deliberate tomfoolery on your part. Pope Francis seemed to be recalling fondly his misbehavior as an altar boy. Had he voiced some regret or even repentance regarding his "messing up the words" I agree he might deserve a pass. But he didn't, leaving a horrible example for that boy and millions more. No pass.
I can't tell you how many times I've heard "Catholic" educators throughout my many years of parochial education disparage the Mass in exactly the same way as Bergoglio here.
I've even heard the sanctus bell compared to a cow bell.
Bergoglio's comments about the Mass of All Ages is pretty de rigour, albeit for brainwashing the impressionable 7 year old out there.
Oh there was a bit of tomfoolery too, my friend, but my recollection draws upon the gracious kindness of the priests who, with quiet dignity, patiently managed such as me and therein taught me the wonderful solemnity of the Mass and the precious value of the priesthood.
These priests never scrupled to carefully draw this 'little donkey' out of the well into which he'd fall from time to time even if it were on a Sunday.
Here is a great choice for Pope Francis that he may lay down his office and go and stay in a Monastry . Spend rest of his life in Prayer and Penance. Thus he will set the best example to the world and undo the damage he has done to the bride of Christ. He will set a good example to the upper Hierarchy . He may choose Apostle Peter's example rather than die like Judas.
It is "not very surprising" as the Pope recalled his days as a child. It is not very surprising that as a child, the Pope did childish things.
The most important takeaway from the Pope's recollection is that he said he and his fellow altar boys "really enjoyed serving at Mass."
The headline to this story could have read that "As An Altar Boy, Pope Francis "Really Enjoyed Serving At Mass."
But we couldn't have that as that would have made Pope Francis look good. We have to make him look bad. We must always be negative when it comes to Pope Francis. Never, never emphasize that which is positive.
I think the point being made by some who have responded is that the Pope, whatever his feelings are about the Ancient Rite Mass, could have phrased things more delicately to the child who wrote to him. When my children ask about some of these events in Church history I think it is a father's duty to satisfy their curiosity in such a way as to not make the Church look ridiculous. The Pope has not done that in this instance; he has left the child with the impression that something old and decrepit has been mercifully brushed aside in favor of what we have now. In other words he has done both the child and the Church a disservice.
If, indeed, he even wrote this. At first glance, it looks so "staged" and "scripted", and far too convenient an exchange, if you know what I mean.
Rorate is trying again desperately to attack Pope Francis. Other than your blog, Tancred, this is another Rorate attempt to attack Pope Francis that Catholic blogs will ignore. This is a total non-story. Well, except to you and Rorate.
No, I don't think he does a good enough job himself. News media people do a good job convincing people that the Pope said such and such when he never said such and such. And some Catholic bloggers of a traditionalist viewpoint do a good job in that regard.
Anyway this latest story to attack the Pope that Rorate pushed is already dead on Rorate. No one cared about it. My guess is that the only blogger who will show any interest in this dead story is Mundabor.
Rorate pushes this kind of garbage every day to attack Pope Francis. Some traditionalists bloggers buy into it. But the majority of Catholics love and respect Pope Francis.
Rorate is very careful and if anything, understates the many things that are wrong with this papacy.
We can't all live in the epistemological bubble you do, but the pope has said such and such and done such and such. You're also mistaken if you think it's just traditionalists. Actually, most of Bergooglio and his clique's biggest critics are not traditionanlists. Just to bring you up to speed, there's Antonio Socci, Sandro Magister, Francisco de la Cigona, just to name a fraction of them...
You are correct that the Pope has critics beyond traditionalists. But I imagine that at least in the world of Catholic blogs, his fiercest critics are traditionalists.
I disagree that Rorate is "very careful." They have posted sensationalistic anti-Pope Francis stories that over and over died quickly. The latest example is their Pope Francis altar boy story. As I figured, only Mundabor has any interest in what is an absurd non-story. But hey, it's his blog. This is your blog. I appreciate that.
He's a pope who deserves fierce criticism, and the incipient ninnyism of professional Catholics is what helps this stinking, rotten Marxist charade along.
How wilfully naive to pick up on Francis's customary mixing of a little praise (we really enjoyed serving Mass then) with negative subliminal message to deceitfully give the impression that he is not doing anything revolutionary while in fact smearing and casting in a negative light Catholic faith, tradition and customs. It is his preferred modus operandi, when he is not outright attacking faithful Catholics (his preferred sport). This is a bit of anti-pre-Vatican Council II propaganda geared for children so that they will understand how lucky they are to be living in the "enlightened" times of the Conciliar and emptying, Church. It is pure evil manipulation. Mr. Dawson, one does not have to try desperately to attack Pope Francis as he does that himself, from a Catholic perspective, splendidly. He hates the Church of immemorial tradition with all his might, like the good Modernist he is. And the Catholic world---outside of the emotional, uncatechized mobs that show up for his trips to have a free rock concert-like experiencve---is waking up to it. Witness the pictures of the almost non-existent crowds for the Wednesday audiences. And the sooner this clown is known for what he is, the better. During his pontificate it will be a pleasure to see in the Piazza San Pietro only the "monks" of the heretic Enzo Bianchi and a few other deluded clericalists who confuse papolatry with Catholicism. Their numbers, thank God, are dwindling. It is likely that that is God's holy purpose in allowing the half-century calamity that has befallen Holy Mother Church. RC
If the Pope's Wednesday audience attendance has dwindled, then the locals and pilgrims in Rome have missed many outstanding traditional statements from the Pontiff.
They missed hearing Pope Francis teach that Catholics who have divorced and remarried have violated the Church's teachings on marriage.
They missed hearing Pope Francis urge Catholics to promote laws that prohibit homosexual "marriages" and the adoption of children by homosexuals.
They missed hearing Pope Francis urge Catholics to pray the Rosary and develop devotions to the Saints. They missed many traditional teachings from Pope Francis.
They may be heretical and offensive to you. To tens of millions of Catholics, such as I, the Pope has pounded home traditional teachings. I appreciate in particular his constant reminders that Satan is real and that we need to flee sin and go to Confession. I've never heard a Pope talk so much about the reality of Satan and our need to meet God in Confession. Our Pope is very wonderful in urging us to go to Confession.
My memories are very different from the Pope's. I remember serving Holy Mass at 5:am. I recall with wonder, how mysterious was the Latin Rite Mass at that early hour.
I understand what you mean,friend.Our chapel has daily low mass around 6:30-7:15am. It's almost ethereal to attend the holy sacrifice of the mass at that time,especially during fall,winter,and very early spring. My work schedule doesn't allow me to attend much but when I can,it's special.
I've known altar boys like he was, and they've really converted—from ridiculing all the kneeling, for example, to taking the task of serving God as a great honor.
Time and again Pope Francis has proved by his lose irresponsible talks and interviews that he possesses not even an iota of Catholic belief and is deliberately creating confusion . His false humility and conduct against the God's commandments is well understood and God may put an end to all these soon. It will be in a matter of a year or two at the most, until such time we faithful Catholics have to suffer and turn to our Blessed Mother Mary for Her intervention.
Besides all the rest of his problematic words and actions, this Pope, has absolutely no class, no reverence, no sense of Something Beyond himself. Everything stops with him. He does not indicate Jesus, despite the lip-service he pays to HIM ...he has no sense of the transcendent about him....maybe other popes were too attached to the things of the world too, but Pope Francis is special...he boasts them... I have an infinite sadness, and nostagilia for MY sense of reverence for the papacy, (not papalotry)...it is one of the things I resent most that he has destroyed... there is too much evidence that he is not doing his best for the Papal Office...3 years of it...
The majority of the Catholic world either does not care about this papal buffoon (although they should if they love their Mother the Church) or goes to his costly papal visits for the thrill of the cheap, vulgar experience. Serious Catholics either distrust him or loathe him for the enemy of the Faith that he is. A blemish on the history of the papacy unlike any before---and I would include the most corrupt of Renaissance popes among those Francis supersedes in malice and ability to damage the Church of Christ. RC
I read this excerpt and, having been an altar boy in the early to mid-sixties, can't honestly say that I find any of these puerile high-jinks especially shocking.
ReplyDeleteI go to the last line of the Pope's: "We had fun, and we really enjoyed serving at Mass."
Nowadays, most "servers" don't have to do much of anything except fidget and look at the clock.
ReplyDeleteMy brother, a mere working-class boy of 9, took his varied, complex duties as altar server for the TLM very serious. He loved every minute of it as far as I could tell. I, as his sister, was so proud of him. There was no envy on the girls' part, I might add. This was manly work, serving OurLord in such a manner. It appears Jorge's formation was deficient and coarse.
ReplyDeleteHe has exposed himself , what a shame . Whom to blame ? His parents , his Parish Priests or the environment in which he grew up ? Did he learn the catechism ? Have we to blame the school he attended. Right from youth he lacked discipline and so what can we expect from him as an elder and POPE !
ReplyDeleteHe must have set a very bad example to his companions.He is a confused creature right from his childhood and no wonder even his Jesuit seminary life had a very little effect on his person , he must have duped all his superiors . Does he become serious , at least now ? Fear of God ... absolutely zero .
He may even dare to say "who is God to judge me".
What a pity ! He is the Vicar of Christ. He is confusing the whole world now.How many millions of souls will be lost and he has to face the judge,net of God.
Let us pray for his conversion
I remember that our liberal instructors always talked about the "dark" days when everything was in Latin and supposedly really oppressive. It always sounded great to me and although it was the early 70s, and I'd never heard of Gommar de Pauw, I always asked for Latin Mass, but mostly because it seemed to upset my leftist religion instructors whose insecurities and weaknesses I always tried to exploit, just because.
DeleteWell, I do remember it and am grateful that it is in the past. Altar servers were given over to "mumbo jumbo" repeating nonsense syllables whose meaning escaped us. I remember the fly and wax specked altar clothes and shabby vestments and priest standing at the altar scratching their backsides as they bent over the altar saying Mass. I am sorry, but the liturgical changes of the Second Vatican Council have been life-giving to our faith.
DeleteJust like it was read from a script.
DeleteWith doses of 'clown masses' meaningless liturgical dances, seductive 'Tango masses'- a particular enjoyment for our, 'believe in very little of substance' Pope Francis, all part of the modern mind set to destroy what which 'The faith of our Fathers' truly believed. In short, our current pontiff is the head of a 'demolition company' which has little, if any, concern for souls.
DeleteI think if a father is devout, even the youngest sons tend to give Our Lord His due. If the Father is coarse and ribald in regards to the Mass, things of the Church, the children will follow. What do we know of Jorge's father?
ReplyDeleteQuod erat demonstrandum
ReplyDeleteI think it's very unlikely he really thought these things as a child. More likely he is projecting his current prejudices against Catholicism onto his younger self.
ReplyDeleteI recall having to move 'the book'. One time the heel of my shoe got caught in the hem of my cassock and, with a great ripping noise, I fell forward up the stairs with 'the book' splaying out in front of me. The priest asked if I was all right, helped me up, allowed me the dignity of finishing my task, quietly replaced the tabs indicating the various readings, and carried on. In later years I came to view that incident and many other similar ones (I could barely see without my glasses but refused to wear them 'in public') with humour and nostalgia.
DeleteIn this instance, I am inclined to give the Pope a pass on his (obviously) fond recollections.
Mr. Ronan, your incident was occasioned by an accident, not by any deliberate tomfoolery on your part. Pope Francis seemed to be recalling fondly his misbehavior as an altar boy. Had he voiced some regret or even repentance regarding his "messing up the words" I agree he might deserve a pass. But he didn't, leaving a horrible example for that boy and millions more. No pass.
DeleteI can't tell you how many times I've heard "Catholic" educators throughout my many years of parochial education disparage the Mass in exactly the same way as Bergoglio here.
DeleteI've even heard the sanctus bell compared to a cow bell.
Bergoglio's comments about the Mass of All Ages is pretty de rigour, albeit for brainwashing the impressionable 7 year old out there.
@Restore-DC-Catholicism,
DeleteOh there was a bit of tomfoolery too, my friend, but my recollection draws upon the gracious kindness of the priests who, with quiet dignity, patiently managed such as me and therein taught me the wonderful solemnity of the Mass and the precious value of the priesthood.
These priests never scrupled to carefully draw this 'little donkey' out of the well into which he'd fall from time to time even if it were on a Sunday.
It was a different time.
Here is a great choice for Pope Francis that he may lay down his office and go and stay in a Monastry . Spend rest of his life in Prayer and Penance.
ReplyDeleteThus he will set the best example to the world and undo the damage he has
done to the bride of Christ. He will set a good example to the upper Hierarchy . He may choose Apostle Peter's example rather than die like Judas.
It is "not very surprising" as the Pope recalled his days as a child. It is not very surprising that as a child, the Pope did childish things.
ReplyDeleteThe most important takeaway from the Pope's recollection is that he said he and his fellow altar boys "really enjoyed serving at Mass."
The headline to this story could have read that "As An Altar Boy, Pope Francis "Really Enjoyed Serving At Mass."
But we couldn't have that as that would have made Pope Francis look good. We have to make him look bad. We must always be negative when it comes to Pope Francis. Never, never emphasize that which is positive.
I think the point being made by some who have responded is that the Pope, whatever his feelings are about the Ancient Rite Mass, could have phrased things more delicately to the child who wrote to him. When my children ask about some of these events in Church history I think it is a father's duty to satisfy their curiosity in such a way as to not make the Church look ridiculous. The Pope has not done that in this instance; he has left the child with the impression that something old and decrepit has been mercifully brushed aside in favor of what we have now. In other words he has done both the child and the Church a disservice.
DeleteIf, indeed, he even wrote this. At first glance, it looks so "staged" and "scripted", and far too convenient an exchange, if you know what I mean.
Rorate is trying again desperately to attack Pope Francis. Other than your blog, Tancred, this is another Rorate attempt to attack Pope Francis that Catholic blogs will ignore. This is a total non-story. Well, except to you and Rorate.
ReplyDeleteWe don't have to work hard at it. Don't you think he does a good enough job at it all on his own?
DeleteNo, I don't think he does a good enough job himself. News media people do a good job convincing people that the Pope said such and such when he never said such and such. And some Catholic bloggers of a traditionalist viewpoint do a good job in that regard.
DeleteAnyway this latest story to attack the Pope that Rorate pushed is already dead on Rorate. No one cared about it. My guess is that the only blogger who will show any interest in this dead story is Mundabor.
Rorate pushes this kind of garbage every day to attack Pope Francis. Some traditionalists bloggers buy into it. But the majority of Catholics love and respect Pope Francis.
Rorate is very careful and if anything, understates the many things that are wrong with this papacy.
DeleteWe can't all live in the epistemological bubble you do, but the pope has said such and such and done such and such. You're also mistaken if you think it's just traditionalists. Actually, most of Bergooglio and his clique's biggest critics are not traditionanlists. Just to bring you up to speed, there's Antonio Socci, Sandro Magister, Francisco de la Cigona, just to name a fraction of them...
You are correct that the Pope has critics beyond traditionalists. But I imagine that at least in the world of Catholic blogs, his fiercest critics are traditionalists.
DeleteI disagree that Rorate is "very careful." They have posted sensationalistic anti-Pope Francis stories that over and over died quickly. The latest example is their Pope Francis altar boy story. As I figured, only Mundabor has any interest in what is an absurd non-story. But hey, it's his blog. This is your blog. I appreciate that.
He's a pope who deserves fierce criticism, and the incipient ninnyism of professional Catholics is what helps this stinking, rotten Marxist charade along.
DeleteI'll bet you're a global warming hysteric too.
I have not reviewed in depth the issue of global warning. Therefore, I don't feel comfortable to opine on global warming.
DeleteIf you have posted on that issue, I would be happy to read your thoughts on that matter.
It's obviously a grab for power and totalitarianism. Creating an artificial crisis to inspire people to happily embrace their chains? Sounds familiar.
DeleteHow wilfully naive to pick up on Francis's customary mixing of a little praise (we really enjoyed serving Mass then) with negative subliminal message to deceitfully give the impression that he is not doing anything revolutionary while in fact smearing and casting in a negative light Catholic faith, tradition and customs. It is his preferred modus operandi, when he is not outright attacking faithful Catholics (his preferred sport). This is a bit of anti-pre-Vatican Council II propaganda geared for children so that they will understand how lucky they are to be living in the "enlightened" times of the Conciliar and emptying, Church. It is pure evil manipulation. Mr. Dawson, one does not have to try desperately to attack Pope Francis as he does that himself, from a Catholic perspective, splendidly. He hates the Church of immemorial tradition with all his might, like the good Modernist he is. And the Catholic world---outside of the emotional, uncatechized mobs that show up for his trips to have a free rock concert-like experiencve---is waking up to it. Witness the pictures of the almost non-existent crowds for the Wednesday audiences. And the sooner this clown is known for what he is, the better. During his pontificate it will be a pleasure to see in the Piazza San Pietro only the "monks" of the heretic Enzo Bianchi and a few other deluded clericalists who confuse papolatry with Catholicism. Their numbers, thank God, are dwindling. It is likely that that is God's holy purpose in allowing the half-century calamity that has befallen Holy Mother Church. RC
ReplyDeleteIf the Pope's Wednesday audience attendance has dwindled, then the locals and pilgrims in Rome have missed many outstanding traditional statements from the Pontiff.
DeleteThey missed hearing Pope Francis teach that Catholics who have divorced and remarried have violated the Church's teachings on marriage.
They missed hearing Pope Francis urge Catholics to promote laws that prohibit homosexual "marriages" and the adoption of children by homosexuals.
They missed hearing Pope Francis urge Catholics to pray the Rosary and develop devotions to the Saints. They missed many traditional teachings from Pope Francis.
We get to see a lot of the heretical and offensive things he says, usually about every other day.
DeleteThey may be heretical and offensive to you. To tens of millions of Catholics, such as I, the Pope has pounded home traditional teachings. I appreciate in particular his constant reminders that Satan is real and that we need to flee sin and go to Confession. I've never heard a Pope talk so much about the reality of Satan and our need to meet God in Confession. Our Pope is very wonderful in urging us to go to Confession.
DeleteIf you say so.
DeleteMy memories are very different from the Pope's. I remember serving Holy Mass at 5:am. I recall with wonder, how mysterious was the Latin Rite Mass at that early hour.
ReplyDeleteI understand what you mean,friend.Our chapel has daily low mass around 6:30-7:15am.
DeleteIt's almost ethereal to attend the holy sacrifice of the mass at that time,especially during fall,winter,and very early spring.
My work schedule doesn't allow me to attend much but when I can,it's special.
I've known altar boys like he was, and they've really converted—from ridiculing all the kneeling, for example, to taking the task of serving God as a great honor.
ReplyDeleteTime and again Pope Francis has proved by his lose irresponsible talks and interviews that he possesses not even an iota of Catholic belief and is deliberately creating confusion . His false humility and conduct against the God's commandments is well understood and God may put an end to all these soon. It will be in a matter of a year or two at the most, until such time we faithful Catholics have to suffer and turn to our Blessed Mother Mary for Her intervention.
ReplyDeleteBesides all the rest of his problematic words and actions, this Pope, has absolutely no class, no reverence, no sense of Something Beyond himself. Everything stops with him. He does not indicate Jesus, despite the lip-service he pays to HIM ...he has no sense of the transcendent about him....maybe other popes were too attached to the things of the world too, but Pope Francis is special...he boasts them...
ReplyDeleteI have an infinite sadness, and nostagilia for MY sense of reverence for the papacy, (not papalotry)...it is one of the things I resent most that he has destroyed... there is too much evidence that he is not doing his best for the Papal Office...3 years of it...
Barbara
The majority of the Catholic world either does not care about this papal buffoon (although they should if they love their Mother the Church) or goes to his costly papal visits for the thrill of the cheap, vulgar experience. Serious Catholics either distrust him or loathe him for the enemy of the Faith that he is. A blemish on the history of the papacy unlike any before---and I would include the most corrupt of Renaissance popes among those Francis supersedes in malice and ability to damage the Church of Christ. RC
ReplyDelete