Edit: I think the conservatives were better organized this time, but ultimately, all of the things which the Kasperians clamoired for have been done for years by dissident parishes and evil places like, say, Collegeville. Yet it still has to be said that they at least didn't give the appearance of consensus like they have in the past when they host these teachin consensus building events where opposing groups and individuals are identified and marginalized, while the evil people, in this case the Kasperians, are made to look like the sensible party.
[Damian Thompson, Spectator] This afternoon the Vatican Synod on the Family amended and approved the final document summing up three weeks of chaotic and sometimes poisonous debate – much of it focussing on whether divorced and remarried people should be allowed to receive communion.
The majority view of the Synod Fathers is that they don’t want the rules changed. They especially don’t want one rule to apply in, say, Germany and another in Tanzania. Pope Francis has just given a cautiously worded (but also, alas, rather waffly) address in which he acknowledges as much:
… we have also seen that what seems normal for a bishop on one continent, is considered strange and almost scandalous for a bishop from another; what is considered a violation of a right in one society is an evident and inviolable rule in another; what for some is freedom of conscience is for others simply confusion.
Significantly, the Fathers didn’t back a ‘solution’ suggested by liberal cardinals, whereby divorced and remarried Catholics could consult their consciences and their confessors over whether they should follow the rules.
The final relatio is ambiguous and heretical, even implying adulterers are in the state of grace!:
ReplyDelete"[T]he Holy Spirit pours gifts and charisms in them [the 'baptized who are divorced and civilly remarried,' i.e., adulterers]"!!!
Adulterers live in a state of mortal sin. Although this does not mean they are cut off from all graces, they are barred from sanctifying grace.
But even in terms of actual or gratuitous graces, the Holy Ghost can grant or refuse to grant them to whosoever He chooses, so it's not always true that "the Holy Spirit pours gifts and charisms in [all of] them for the good of all."
Also, "no one has the gift of understanding without sanctifying grace." (St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica II-II q. 8 a. 5 c.).
It also quotes Familiaris Consortio, which speaks of "destroyed marriages!" As though humans can put asunder what God bound together! Only death destroys a marriage!
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DeleteAlso, from the final relatio:
ReplyDeleteTheir [i.e., adulterers'] participation can be expressed in various ecclesial services: it is therefore necessary to discern which of the different forms of exclusion currently practiced in a liturgical, educational, pastoral, and institutional role that can be overcome.
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DeleteWe won. Stop trying to look for a loss where there isnt one. The Holy Ghost intervened and protected the Church from francis the satanist and his gang of demons. Our prayers and rosaries worked. Accept victory and stop trying to make it a defeat.
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ReplyDeleteFor now?
ReplyDeleteIt's a long game.
DeleteTrust but verify, and the verifying will be a process, and will take quite a while.
ReplyDeleteIf anyone has read the reports of "Pope" Francis giving his speech at the Mass closing the Synod on Saturday, it was totally in his character and evil spirit. Just like a spoiled brat who has a temper tantrum when he doesn't get his way, Francis delivered a few subtle admonitions and insults towards the conservative branch of the Synod fathers who ruined his and Cardinal Kasper's plans.
ReplyDeleteMore than sounding like a spoiled child, it revealed even more, the very pronounced and genuinely evil streak in Francis. He most assuredly will try to get even with them. And if he does, it will all the more show him from the evil man he is.
I am sure that many (if not al) of you have seen either one or all of the original 3 blockbuster movies which made up the "Star Wars" trilogy.
If you have, remember the character of the Emperor, the man who enticed Anakin Skywalker into the "Dark Side" to ultimately become Darth Vader. His role was one of the most chilling depicitions of evil I have ever seen. And in the films, for a time he appears triumphant in his agenda. Bu remember how in the end, those whom he has tried with all his might to turn to evil had a change of heart, rebelled against him and hoisted him into the flames where he perished.
Although I use this as a rather fanciful example, this is what is happening to Francis and company. Most of the Synod Fathers.....even some of the Germans apparently, saw the Papal desire for the Synod outcome as evil, and rebelled against Francis and his henchmen.
I read about the synod from the beginning, and the manipulations and ploys and deceptions by Francis and his thugs during the synod (Tagle, the Cardinal president of the Stnod Ballderisi(or something like that), and others was outrageous. Nut there was a higher force directing them...their "Emperor"........the Pope.
Francis will suffer the same fate as the Emperor in the Star Wars trilogy. If the flames await him after his approaching death await him....only God can say.
Damian Malliapalli
His closing speech to the Synod was also illustrative of the way in which he twists the Word of God and manipulates it in the same way that the serpent does:
Delete"It does have to do with overcoming the recurring temptations of the elder brother (cf. Lk 15:25-32) and the jealous labourers (cf. Mt 20:1-16)."
The misdirection involved in likening those who are faithful to Christ's teaching to the "elder brother" is quite demonic. In the parable, the younger son had fully repented (metanoia), turned back from his life of sin and was coming home to his father's house. The elder brother should have been overjoyed with his father that the younger son was coming home.
But the people Francis wants us to welcome are not like the younger son. They are content to carry on wallowing in the pig shit of their adultery and this evil Pope wants us to see that as a good thing. Of course they will be welcomed with open arms if they repent as the younger brother did - and as we all must do for all of our sins. But to fail to make the distinction between a repentant sinner, and one who wants his sin to be approved and validated, is to turn the Church over to the dominion of Satan.
We need to pray for the early retirement of this antipope like our lives and souls depended on it.
What wonderful Christ-like encouragement for the whole Church from Pope Francis:
Delete"We have seen, also by the richness of our diversity, that the same challenge is ever before us: that of proclaiming the Gospel to the men and women of today, and defending the family from all ideological and individualistic assaults.
And without ever falling into the danger of relativism or of demonizing others, we sought to embrace, fully and courageously, the goodness and mercy of God who transcends our every human reckoning and desires only that “all be saved” (cf. 1 Tm 2:4). In this way we wished to experience this Synod in the context of the Extraordinary Year of Mercy which the Church is called to celebrate."
Gaybriel,
Delete1) Christ wasn't diverse? And neither was the Church he founded? And neither was the Creator?
2) Somehow I find it hard to believe that the family talked about here is that composed of a biological male man who has left father and mother, clung to his biologically female wife, and the two become one flesh in the form of their own biological child.
3) The Lord desires that all be saved. However, not all desire to be saved. They must choose to follow either the Sixth Commandment or their own disordered passions.
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DeleteGaybriel,
DeleteI think you have proven without a doubt that you are an unrepentant grade A cassock lifter. Why do you continue unrelentlessly to try and convince others that your sin that cries to heaven is justified? You make no progress here. If you believe that your Frankenchurch is triumphant, why don't you bask in the glory of your victory? Perhaps it's because you are in fact a miserable wretch whose demons won't allow you one moment of true joy, and so you resign yourself to bring others down with you into the hopeless pit of despair that you dwell in. It must be a living hell. God help you.
The Adlai Stevenson of your late teen years/early adulthood was no doubt a likeable gadfly. You are an unlikeable mean and bilious gadfly, Gaybriel. Quit whining. That would be a step in the right direction. Therapy would be a next step.
DeleteHis retirement is unlikely, but his death seems very possible. As I read in one newspaper report, the Vatican would not have wasted so much time denying reports of the Pope;s ill health if all if it were false. Perhaps he does not have a benign brain tumor, but he definitely does not look well, and probably has something that the Vatican is covering up. Perhaps he does have the brain tumor, and they are denying it, just as 50+ years ago they denied that JOhn XXIII had stomach cancer until the last two weeks of his life, an denied John Paul II had Parkinson's until the last year or so of his life. But he had had the Parkinsons for 10+ years before he died and it was always denied by the Vatican.
ReplyDeleteFrancis probably IS rather seriously ill, with something. It'll come out as it gets worse. We just have to wait.
Hopefully, we will have a youngish, orthodox (and even traditional minded) Pope in a year or two.
After this Synod, I have read that more Cardinals and Bishops dislike/hate Francis and his thugs more than ever.
Damian Malliapalli
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DeleteJudging from the title photo on Damian Thompson's article, Francis at least has the emerods, as the Douay-Rheims American edition of 1899 puts it; e.g. 1 Samuel 5:9:
Delete"And while they were carrying it about, the band of the Lord came upon every city with an exceeding great slaughter: and he smote the men of every city, both small and great, and they had emerods in their secret parts. And the Gethrites consulted together, and made themselves seats of skins."
There is a saying in Italy "the pope is healthy until he is dead"
DeleteThe only way to "win" this game is to not play.
ReplyDeleteThat's it. Heresy and modernism and relativism and positivism win by the scandalous exhibition of the synod discussing things which are always and everywhere against the Faith and voting on matters which are reliant on unchangeable truths. The press statements by the Synod secretariat and individual bishops and Francis have put out truly evil propositions.
DeleteYou know, Lynda, that Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger (now Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI) referred to Vladimir Soloviev's work "A Short Tale of the Antichrist" regarding the temptation of Christ in the desert: Ratzinger remarked
Delete"The Devil proves to be a connoisseur of the Bible who knows how to quote the psalm exactly." and continued commenting on the second temptation of Jesus in his 2004 book ‘On the Road toward Christ Jesus’ (referring directly to Soloviev’s ‘A Short Tale of the Antichrist’):
“And a phrase of Soloviev’s is illuminating: The Antichrist believes in God, but in the depths of his heart he prefers himself.”
Such appalling contempt for souls. Jesus, Mary and Holy Saint Joseph, mercy.
DeleteReparation, reparation to the fresh wounds to the Sacred Hearts.
Francis won: the schism of the German church - and the end of the Roman catholic one - can be just around the corner
ReplyDeleteI don't think so. Let's put it this way, he didn't win the way he had hoped to win. Yes, there was ambiguity in the final report, and enough to allow crazy things to be going on in the Church by heretics, but the language was backed up by orthodox statements. There was in some paragraphs 'wiggle room' but they were hoping for much more than that. That said, the 'war' is not by a long shot 'over'. We must keep our armor shiny and bright and speak out against heresy, pray, fast and keep our noses to the grindstone, but it's not over for the Church until Christ returns. Or as they say: 'It ain't over till the fat lady sings'.
DeleteAnd to add to that, it wouldn't be wise or really even spiritually healthy for those of tradition to get too 'comfy' just yet.
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DeleteThat;s ridiculous. Pope Francis didn't win. There were Bishops at the Synod, and other observers, who said that not only did the Pope look ill, but at times he looked angry as he listened to the presentations by Bishops. Bishop Colleridge of Australia said to a colleague at the Synod that the Pope sits slumped in his chair, "poker faced" and glaring at the assembled bishops. That's not the attitude of someone who is winning.
ReplyDeleteThe Pope;s agenda lost at the Synod, thanks to the good conservatives.
If, in the end, he tried to pull a fast one and reject the final decision of the Synod and impose his own evil agenda, Francis will have such a backlash of rebellion against him that either he really will have a stroke and die (some reports said he had a mild stroke after an angry rant at the Synod), or good Cardinals and Bishops at the Vatican and elsewhere will rise up and force him and his thugs to resign. Then there will be a new Pope, and a real housecleaning of the liberal filth from Francis.
Cardinal Pell has stated that he is very happy with the outcome as is Cardinal Mueller of the CDF.
Deletehe has open a leak, he's going to break the roman church
ReplyDeleteThe title of this article is : Conservatives win. Really? I wasn't aware that this was a game. If they won, what did they win? If this is a game, what kind of game? The fact is, people, francis runs the game. He owns the game. Why do you think he stacked the deck in favor of progressives and sodomites? Was it to win this game? or was it to make progressives/sodomites look like they had at least a good showing. The fact is, francis has the only vote that counts. The final report, and I knew it would be confusing and ambiguous, as hell, is francis style. It has to be confusing, so francis can move forward with his agenda. To think conservatives won something here, would be outrageous. for all of the so-called conservatives who want to pat themselves on the back, go ahead. francis is playing chess and the conservatives are playing checkers. there is something much bigger going on here, and the end of the silly synod did not put and end to it, but, actually will be the starting point of changes in The Church that most people will think isn't possible, even while they see it going on before their very eyes. For the so-called conservatives, go celebrate and drink your koolaid. You haven't seen anything, yet.
ReplyDeleteI'm afraid I have to agree with you completely. I can't believe how many trad (and conservative ) Catholic bloggers are pleased with the outcome. A really good video of Michael Matt and John Rao about the outcome is here, in case you've not seen it yet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqQ8pbJPh_s&feature=em-uploademail
DeleteThe very existence of such a sin odd is a defeat for the True Church.
DeleteKLUMP: I fear you are only too correct in your analysis!
ReplyDeleteDitto.
DeletePray for the reign of the anti-Pope, anti-Christ Pope Francis to end soon, one way or another.
ReplyDeleteGod runs the game, not Francis.
ReplyDeleteWe "won"? Not. http://restore-dc-catholicism.blogspot.com/2015/10/fellow-faithful-catholics-sin-nod-was.html
ReplyDeleteThe Eponymous Flower hyperbole is not convincing. It is an exaggeration to suggest that a "majority" do not want pastoral reform or that anyone "won." Better take a closer look at the vote count on each paragraph ... again a minority view.
ReplyDeleteAll that we can determine for sure is that the Bishops do not agree ... and may have punted to the Pope for final adjudication.
It takes time and conflict to sort out and understand reality ... for humility to penetrate and allow us to see the hand of God. The positive Synod outcome is that conflict and paradox is no longer being ignored nor suppressed.
Agree. In fact, I'm really surprised that Eponymous Flower sees it the way they do.
DeleteI'm not worried about it. There will always be Faithful Catholics, a remnant, and evil men of wickedness like Kasper and his collection of ecclesiastical parasites. Unfortunately, the situation where remarried divorcees receive communion has been a practical norm in many pets if the German Church for years. Regardless of what time bombs there are in the document, the evil German Bishops are going to do as they have always done, unless someone public ally excommunicates then or God strikes them down.
DeleteNo doubt you regard yourself an adult, probably learned, and Mr. Jenner regards himself a woman, and lapdogs who regard themselves human, but who in their right minds would change laws based on these examples of "hard" cases?
DeleteThe Eponymous Flower hyperbole is not convincing. It is an exaggeration to suggest that a "majority" do not want pastoral reform or that anyone "won." Better take a closer look at the vote count on each paragraph ... again a minority view.
ReplyDeleteAll that we can determine for sure is that the Bishops do not agree ... and may have punted to the Pope for final adjudication.
It takes time and conflict to sort out and understand reality ... for humility to penetrate and allow us to see the hand of God. The positive Synod outcome is that conflict and paradox is no longer being ignored nor suppressed.
Which paradox?
DeleteConservatives Win! No they didn't, they lost! There is nothing good about this final document or the synod, in general. Conservatives won nothing! If you read the final report, it is allowing in special situations, for the divorced and remarried, and many others, to receive Holy Communion. They are allowing it on a case by case basis, and by the local bishop to "discern" with public adulterers, what the right path should be. This is outrageous! I would recommend that you go to Fatima TV and watch John Venari & Chris Ferrara's commentary on this. Keep drinking the koolaid, conservatives!
ReplyDeleteImpeccable sources for sede-vacantist losers.
Deleteexcept that Venari and Ferrara are not sedevacantists. Educate yourself, little one.
DeleteWho said they were?
DeleteOr here for Michael Matt's and John Rao's take: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqQ8pbJPh_s&feature=em-uploademail
DeleteThere is an excellent, new article, about the St. Gallen mafia group, posted on lifesitenews.com
ReplyDeleteThere is an excellent account of this group written years ago by Austen Ivereigh in his bio of Pope Francis, "The Great Reformer."
DeleteThere was never anything underhand or conspiratorial with this group. Benedict's annual study seminar with former students is a good parallel. Card Schoenborn is one of those students.
The Cucktholic Austin Ivereigh? Wow, how impressive.
DeleteHaving tossed the lazy ad hominem rock, how about you read his book.
DeleteIf you cite the evil Austen Ivoreigh, you are lost.
DeleteWow Henry, the snot came spurting out your nose so fast, you must be a Cucktholic too-- or worse.
Deleteheard Austin on a Catholic radio station. Nice man, intelligent, but a Cuck. I know what I heard. Why would I want to waste my time and money on his book, dumdum?
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DeleteSome posts and comments would have us believe that the conservatives " won " ... really ! I doubt that .... we are about to start the " Year of Mercy " Just what will that "mercy" be pushed for if not for what Pope Francis and his band of merry men be pushing for if not for what they keep on pushing for up to now ?
ReplyDeleteIMHO: "Cucktholick" - magnificent appellation!
ReplyDeleteThere maybe conservatives in the liberal modernist neo-church but there are no genuine traditional Roman Catholics - Eternal Rome can no longer be recognised in this disgraceful charade.
ReplyDeleteFor neo-church it will be change and novelties as usual. This is the only way liberal modernists know.
ReplyDelete