I like this bishop, he tripped over his tongue and said something rashly as we all can do and now he apologized. We're Catholic, all is forgotten, lets move on, I like it.
Man enough to apologize and actually mean it. He seems to be one of the good ones. I look to the day of a reconciliation and a canonical standing for the SSPX. I would frequent their doors myself when that happens. If it had not been for them, would we have any tradition left? Seeing what the vast majority of hierarchy are doing and their embracing of the world's sinfulness and compromising with it, they are no longer true Catholics but protestants who are leading millions astray.
My first impression as I watched this was that the Bishop was immediately blaming others. IF that were true, why didn't the good Bishop publish an immediate retraction back when this letter was published and since spread like wildfire across the blogosphere? Not a peep of a correction from Bishop Morlino, if in fact a mistake had been made. So I'm not buying it and immediately blaming others came off very badly, to me.
He also doesn't strike me as sincere in his "praise" of the SSPX.
It doesn't matter, even if the prevailing wind of Francis probably spurred him on to make the apology. Traditional Catholics are true Catholics so we'll be quick for forgive and forget.
Elizabeth, cut the bishop some slack. These are disorienting times, so if there is a measure of lucidity and good will, don't look a gift-horse in the mouth!
I'd really like to cut him some slack since he's been pretty supportive of Tradition, although not the SSPX specifically. But when he came out with that letter, I was pretty disappointed and a little surprised at his language.
Now he says that it was someone else's fault. Maybe so. I'll give him slack enough to assume he's telling the truth about that.
But my discomfort remains. Why would he not retract or correct then?
We'll never know his motivation. But now he had the grace to retract his former condemnation. A great battle is being waged--people are mobilising and making judgements about all that is happening in the Church. Pray for Catholics everywhere that they choose The Eternal Words of Jesus over new-fangled heresies.
Deo Gratias for Bishop Morlino. How I wish the Society of St. Pius X would quickly reconcile (reconcile? They are the true Church). This is a most urgent time and we need the SSPX to be a powerful voice and instrument in the Church. Angelo
Bishop Morlino's letter in question, when it contained the exhortation to shun the SSPX, helped to reveal the deep rage that many Catholics have for the SSPX.
Bishop Morlino made it clear that rather than hate, he possesses goodwill toward the SSPX.
I am not certain that the above pertains to the person who inserted into the letter the exhortation to shun the SSPX. Perhaps the person in question is a fine, but mistaken, Catholic.
However, the many persons who seized upon Bishop Morlino's letter to attack the SSPX...to insist that the SSPX is an evil, Church-hating, Pope-hating schismatic outfit, harbor deep hatred toward the SSPX.
Even with the inclusion of the shun-the-SSPX exhortation in Bishop Morlino's original letter in question, there wasn't anything in Bishop Morlino's letter that justified the deep hatred of the SSPX that exists among many Catholics.
Again, Bishop Morlino's original letter has revealed, excluding himself, that within the Church, deep rage and hatred exists for the Society of Saint Pius X.
Sorry to sound pessimistic, but even in light of Bishop Morlino's apology in question, I doubt that the SSPX haters will heed the Remnant's call to treat the SSPX with brotherly love.
I would, please, to follow up on my last statement...that "even in light of Bishop Morlino's apology in question, I doubt that the SSPX haters will heed the Remnant's call to treat the SSPX with brotherly love."
A major problem that surrounds the SSPX is that there are two extreme parties, one is anti-SSPX, the other is pro-SSPX, who are entrenched in the past.
The anti-SSPX folks live as if the SSPX excommunications are in effect. They live as if Rome-SSPX relations remain frigid and almost seemingly at an impasse.
This isn't 1988 A.D. This isn't 1978 A.D.
The days are over when the situation between Rome and the SSPX was bleak. It seemed safer then to have banked upon Rome reversing Vatican II rather than the announcement of a Rome-SSPX agreement.
Unfortunately, there are pro-SSPX folks who are also entrenched in the past in regard to the Rome-SSPX situation. The continue to espouse their "Modernist Rome, NewChurch, invalid Novus Ordo Mass, Rome is out to trap us" nonsense.
Even when Pope Francis declared that SSPX absolutions would be recognized as valid throughout the Year of Mercy, said folks espoused their "evil Pope Francis hates the SSPX and is determined to trap the SSPX...it's a modernist trick...fantasies.
Despite the Remnant's call for Catholics to treat the SSPX with brotherly love, I remain convinced that the anti-SSPX extremists will not relent in their vicious attacks against the Society.
Conversely, I believe that there are pro-SSPX extremists who will continue to espouse their Pope-Francis-really-hates-the-SSPX-hates-the-TLM-hates-Holy-Tradition-and-is-determined-to-trap-then-destroy-the-Society nonsense.
However, I believe that there is a sound, healthy, and expanding group within the Church who, despite some problems within the SSPX...and there are problems within the SSPX...realize that overall, the SSPX and Faithful attached to the Society are Catholics who love God and His True Church.
One thing is certain. From his days in Argentina to date, His Holiness Pope Francis has been a friend to the SSPX. He noted recently that "several "Brother Bishops" have informed him of the SSPX's "good faith and sacramental practice."
People who are pro-SSPX (not the pro-SSPX extremists noted above) have Pope Francis' ear.
The group of Catholics who have goodwill toward to the SSPX and desire a Rome-SSPX agreement will continue to expand. The overall positive nature of the SSPX is impossible to ignore.
I am sorry, anti-SSPX extremists. You live in the past.
Anonymous (Angelo) September 13, 2015 at 11:04 AM..."Deo Gratias for Bishop Morlino. How I wish the Society of St. Pius X would quickly reconcile (reconcile? They are the true Church)."
Angelo, the reconciliation that the SSPX requires concerns their canonical situation within the Church. The SSPX does not posses regular canonical within the Church. Rome and the SSPX must solve that problem.
The Society of Saint Pius X is, without doubt, Catholic. They are within the True Church.
Canonical recognition from Rome would, as Bishop Schneider noted, infuse within the Church a "considerable force for a renewal of the Church..."
Imagine the tremendous renewal within the Church that a regularized SSPX would help to launch!
Imagine if the SSPX were free to operate within a structure granted by Rome to protect the Society from those who desire to thwart the Society's holy mission. Wow!
Mark Thomas, Your comments are full of mixed messages. What gives you the idea that we are entrenched in the past? We live for today, we love the Church, not your idea of yesterday but the Church today founded by Christ 2000 years ago. You are out of tune with your understanding of the SSPX and those Catholics who are in their favor. The SSPX in reality needs no reconciliation, it is they who oppose the Society that need Canonical recognition, because they are no longer Catholic. They proclaim V2 but in practice reject the whole Council. They have each invented their own idea of the Council and the lie that they are doing according to the Council. The SSPX is not a poor little thing that we should pity. It is rather a giant that holds and proclaims Truth in a manner most pleasing to God who is the Truth. Angelo
Angelo, I am not out of tune with my understanding of the SSPX. I have followed the SSPX closely since the 1970s.
I agree with Bishop Schneider's recent SSPX-related comments. He said that there are problems within the Society.
Bishop Schneider has emphasized that it is necessary for the SSPX to receive canonical recognition from Rome.
The good news is that Bishop Schneider stated cautiously that he is unaware of any weighty reasons that would prevent Rome from granting canonical recognition to the SSPX.
Unfortunately, as Bishop Schneider, noted, the SSPX has a problem when it comes speaking and acting in respectful fashion. He said that the SSPX must address that problem.
He said that the SSPX must "avoid incorrect and exaggerated expressions and judgements."
Bishop Schneider also noted that the "SSPX makes some theological criticism of some not strictly dogmatic affirmations in the texts of Vatican II and of some postconciliar documents, which have to be taken seriously.
"Unfortunately their criticism lacks sometimes the due respectful form."
Sorry, Angelo, but problems exist within the SSPX.
But that doesn't change the overall fact that they are Catholic and once regularized, they will led many additional Catholics to the TLM and Holy Tradition.
Angelo said..."What gives you the idea that we are entrenched in the past?"
Angelo, I said that there are two extreme groups within the Church who, in regard to Rome-SSPX relations, are stuck in the past.
The SSPX itself is not stuck in the past. The overall TLM Movement, to which I belong, is not stuck in the past.
The TLM represents the Church's, particularly the Latin Church's, great future.
But the two extreme groups in question are stuck in the past.
1. The anti-SSPX crowd is finished. The "shun the SSPX" attitude, which was featured in Bishop Morlino's original letter in question, is finished.
The SSPX is "schismatic" crowd is finished.
On the other hand, pro-SSPX fanatics, within and without the SSPX...that is, fanatics who insist that "Rome is trying to trap us. Pope Francis hates the TLM and SSPX. We shouldn't trust the Pope. We don't trust 'Modernist" Rome...
...those extremists are finished.
His Holiness Pope Francis has ushered in a new, beautiful, and peaceful era for the relationship between Rome and the SSPX.
Fortunately, many fanatics within the SSPX...those who accuse Bishop Fellay of planning to "sell out the Society to 'modernist' Rome"...have been reduced in number as they have joined Bishop Williamson's ridiculous "resistance" group.
However, there remain some within the SSPX who are so extreme that they despise Bishop Fellay and create problems within the SSPX.
Again, the good news is that the SSPX today has fewer extremists within its midst than was the case one year ago...two years ago.
There also exist outside the SSPX pro-SSPX types who don't attend SSPX chapels, but are anti-"modernist'-Rome extremists who appreciate that the SSPX has preserved the TLM.
They appreciate the SSPX. They offer support for the SSPX. But are convinced that His Holiness Pope Francis is determined to "trap," the destroy the SSPX.
Said pro-SSPX extremists do not help the SSPX. They only give anti-SSPX Catholics ammunition to fire at the SSPX.
Anti-SSPX Catholics say..."look at the extremists who support the SSPX. The extremists hate Rome, hate the Pope, believe in all sorts of conspiracy theories...if that's the kind of crowd that the Society attracts, then good riddance to the SSPX."
Pro-SSPX, anti-Pope Francis, anti-Rome extremists do not in any way help the SSPX.
But they and their "Pope Francis hates the SSPX, TLM, and is determined to trap the SSPX" nonsense has been discredited.
They are finished. The anti-SSPX folks are finished.
Deo gratias, as the result of His Holiness Pope Francis' positive attitude toward the SSPX, the Rome-SSPX relationship has moved toward a better day.
Now, it's up to the SSPX to heed Bishop Athanasius Schneider's' call for the SSPX to fix certain problems within the Society.
I am hopeful that Rome will soon grant canonical recognition to the SSPX.
Angelo, let's pray for that day to arrive shortly.
Mark, I hear you. But on one point, the issue with Traditionalists who do not trust Pope Francis, there is good reason for that. Lets not forget that Pope Francis crushed a thriving Franciscan Order that numbered 800 priests and brothers and 400 Nuns. The actions he allowed for their destruction is already in history as the most unjust and deplorable act against faithful Catholics. The founder of the Order, Fr Manelli today is still under house arrest and Rome will not give an answer as to, why? Then take the 4 Bishops suspended by Pope Francis, in which the Pope gave as the sole reason that they were friendly to Tradition. Bishop Livieres has since died without ever having been given a reason for his suspension, for which he had in all justice the right to know. This is the reason for peoples distrust of Pope Francis. Tell me, are we being extremists with unfounded concerns? Angelo
The strong objections of very many Cardinals and Bishops inside the Curia against Pope Francis with regard to the moto propriios and calling them "Catholic divorce" and spot on correct. There is (validated by many journalists in Rome), strong and increasing violent opposition to Pope Francis and his agenda in the Vatican and across the world by Bishops and Cardinals and thousands of priests and millions of faithful Catholics.
I wonder what the "physical violence" against the Pope is? I know and have read that Bishops etc. in the Vatican are now showing him little respect,Unheard of under Benedict XVI. With Pius XII, people genuflected as he passed. Days long gone. But in the long run, because of his radical agenda etc. Francis deserves it.
Damian Malliapalli said..."I know and have read that Bishops etc. in the Vatican are now showing him little respect,Unheard of under Benedict XVI."
I thought that the popular narrative was that during Pope Benedict XVI;s reign, the Vatican was filled with Churchmen who despised Pope Benedict XVI.
I thought that the narrative was that the Vatican was (and remains) filled supposedly with Churchmen who despised Pope Benedict XVI and were determined to destroy his Pontificate.
This is true I think Mark. Many despised Benedict XVI for not 'crushing the modernists' while he was Pope and have the utmost contempt for him for abdicating. These people hate Benedict more than they do Pope Francis.
That we despised Pope Benedict XVl for not 'crushing the modernists' and that we despise him more than we do Pope Francis, is a total myth. Where do such ideas come from? Pope Benedict XVl and St. John Paul ll in the reform of the reforms crushed every modernist error. The problem! No one obeyed them. How I have desired that a person with the skills write a book detailing how and when this was done. It would be an amazing book, that would remind Catholics and inform those who did not follow these Holy Pontiffs of how the Modernist Heresy was completely demolished in two Papacy's. I know, because I followed closely what these 2 Popes said and did. If one would look back at what the Holy Pontiffs did to the Modernist heresy, one would know that by Papal Authority Modernism is officially DEAD! Angelo
Will Gary M Voris and CMtv print or make a video retraction in good Faith ? http://www.churchmilitant.com/news/article/have-nothing-to-do-with-them-says-winsconsin-bishop-about-sspx
I agree that many people hated and despised Benedict XVI when he was Pope. The radical liberals who eventually brought in Francis hated Benedict XVI because of his half-way gestures in favor of Catholic tradition, and his openness towards the Tridentine Latin Mass and restoration of a fraction of the Papal pomp. This was the radical group lead by Cardinals Sodano, Re, Kasper et al. The other wing were the hard-liners, who elected Benedict XVI because they thought he would clean house in the Church and crush the modernists. When he proved to be a jellyfish in this regard, they hated him, and had nothing but contempt for him when he chose to resign....they saw/see him as a coward, which unfortunately is true. So when I said that there is not rising and violent opposition to Francis in the Curia and around the world among Cardinals, Bishops, etc. this is a good thing because Francis agenda is evil, and a radital liberal rejection of Catholic belief and tradition. But I also agree that there was the same kind of feeling against Benedict from the opposing side. Of course, those who opposed Benedict XVI were/are not truly Catholics, while those who are increasingly opposing Francis ARE true Catholics who wish to save the Church. That's the difference.
Thank God for Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, but for him the the True Traditional Mass would be extinct. We need the Consecration of Russia and Marys protection in these satanic times we are living through. Little Jacinta of Fatima prayed all the time for Our Holy Father the Pope.
If we wish to reduce the preservation of the Traditional Latin Mass to one man (the servant God employed to preserve His Mass), then that man is Father Gommar DePauw, not Archbishop Lefebvre.
Father DePauw founded the Traditionalist Catholic Movement. He was far and away the one man on earth who had kept the TLM alive.
During the 1960s, long before the world had heard of Archbishop Lefebvre and the SSPX, Father Gommar DePauw was a famous priest who served as a peritus at Vatican and was honored by Pope Venerable Paul VI.
Father DePauw, working out of New York, received tremendous national and international news media coverage for his determination to preserve the TLM.
Father DePauw and his Catholic Traditionalist Movement were world-famous.
Father DePauw via travel, TV, radio, and print, the message to preserve and promote the TLM.
He inspired many priests and laymen to preserve the TLM.
During the 1970s, Archbishop Lefebvre, via the SSPX, emerged as the key player in the movement to preserve and promote the TLM. His role in that regard must be honored.
But long before that time, Father DePauw was absolutely the man who was most responsible for having preserved and promoted the TLM.
Father Gommar DePauw is far and away the Traditionalist Movement's key figure.
Gabriel said..."This is true I think Mark. Many despised Benedict XVI for not 'crushing the modernists' while he was Pope and have the utmost contempt for him for abdicating. These people hate Benedict."
Yes.
In fact, long before he had become Pope, many Traditionalists despised then-Cardinal Ratzinger. They insisted that he was a "modernist."
It was common practice in many Traditionalist publications to print the famous photograph of Father Ratzinger attending Vatican II dressed in a suit and tie.
That photograph of Father Ratzinger in "civilian" clothes proved supposedly that he was a modernist.
You are correct about the scorn that many Traditionalists heaped (and continue to heap) upon Pope Benedict XVI for having resigned the Papacy.
I recall at the time of his resignation that many comment boxes on Traditionalist blogs were filled with claims that he had resigned as part of his supposed secret plan to destroy the Papacy.
Many Traditionalists claimed that he desired to transform Papacy into "just an ordinary job...just another occupation"...to demystify the Papacy.
Incredibly, there are Traditionalists who believe that. Oh, well.
Yes. I polled many Traditionalist blogs in 2013 A.D. I read their comment boxes. Many believed that Pope Benedict XVI resigned the Papacy as part of his plan to demystify the Papacy.
Even today, many Traditional Catholics continue to espouse conspiracy theories as to why Pope Benedict XVI resigned.
There are Traditionalists who insist that Pope Benedict XVI remains the "real" Pope...that his resignation remains invalid.
Unfortunately, conspiracy theories of all sorts are popular with many Traditionalists.
Pope Francis is out to trap the SSPX...the Vatican is controlled by (take your pick) Jews, homosexuals, communists, Freemasons, modernists.
Bishop Fellay has signed a secret deal with Rome to sellout the SSPX.
One of my favorite conspiracy theories has the real Pope Venerable Paul VI kidnapped by Modernists who replace him with a lookalike. During the 1970s, I recall vividly having encountered that conspiracy theory in Traditionalist publications.
They used to publish close-up photos of the "real" Pope Venerable Paul VI's ears, then compare them to the "imposter" Pope's ears.
While all of the above is nonsense, I happen to know for a fact that the following conspiracy is true. I am not at liberty to reveal my source, but on Tuesdays, Thursdays, and for four hours each Saturday (from 2:00 P.M. to 6 P.M. Rome time), the Vatican is controlled by a group of Star Trek enthusiasts who wear pointed ears and are out to trap the SSPX.
Once trapped, SSPX bishops and priests will be placed aboard a United Federation of Planets space ship where they will be rocketed into space and consigned forever to the Romulan Neutral Zone.
All credit to Bp. Morlino. I hope his apology gets as much publicity among the friends of the SSPX as his early remarks did. It's good to hear of a bishop with some moral courage.
I like this bishop, he tripped over his tongue and said something rashly as we all can do and now he apologized. We're Catholic, all is forgotten, lets move on, I like it.
ReplyDeleteHopefully he;ll publish a retraction in his diocese newspaper. Not everybody has cable or has EWTN in their TV package.
ReplyDeleteHopefully he;ll publish a retraction in his diocese newspaper. Not everybody has cable or has EWTN in their TV package.
ReplyDeleteMan enough to apologize and actually mean it. He seems to be one of the good ones. I look to the day of a reconciliation and a canonical standing for the SSPX. I would frequent their doors myself when that happens. If it had not been for them, would we have any tradition left? Seeing what the vast majority of hierarchy are doing and their embracing of the world's sinfulness and compromising with it, they are no longer true Catholics but protestants who are leading millions astray.
ReplyDelete"physical aggression coming up against the pontiff?" What does that mean exactly? Sound like a schoolyard fight "i'm gonna kick your ---".
ReplyDeleteMy first impression as I watched this was that the Bishop was immediately blaming others. IF that were true, why didn't the good Bishop publish an immediate retraction back when this letter was published and since spread like wildfire across the blogosphere? Not a peep of a correction from Bishop Morlino, if in fact a mistake had been made. So I'm not buying it and immediately blaming others came off very badly, to me.
ReplyDeleteHe also doesn't strike me as sincere in his "praise" of the SSPX.
But that's just me.
It doesn't matter, even if the prevailing wind of Francis probably spurred him on to make the apology. Traditional Catholics are true Catholics so we'll be quick for forgive and forget.
DeleteElizabeth, cut the bishop some slack. These are disorienting times, so if there is a measure of lucidity and good will, don't look a gift-horse in the mouth!
ReplyDeleteI'd really like to cut him some slack since he's been pretty supportive of Tradition, although not the SSPX specifically. But when he came out with that letter, I was pretty disappointed and a little surprised at his language.
DeleteNow he says that it was someone else's fault. Maybe so. I'll give him slack enough to assume he's telling the truth about that.
But my discomfort remains. Why would he not retract or correct then?
We'll never know his motivation. But now he had the grace to retract his former condemnation. A great battle is being waged--people are mobilising and making judgements about all that is happening in the Church. Pray for Catholics everywhere that they choose The Eternal Words of Jesus over new-fangled heresies.
ReplyDeleteDeo Gratias for Bishop Morlino. How I wish the Society of St. Pius X would quickly reconcile (reconcile? They are the true Church). This is a most urgent time and we need the SSPX to be a powerful voice and instrument in the Church.
ReplyDeleteAngelo
Bishop Morlino's letter in question, when it contained the exhortation to shun the SSPX, helped to reveal the deep rage that many Catholics have for the SSPX.
ReplyDeleteBishop Morlino made it clear that rather than hate, he possesses goodwill toward the SSPX.
I am not certain that the above pertains to the person who inserted into the letter the exhortation to shun the SSPX. Perhaps the person in question is a fine, but mistaken, Catholic.
However, the many persons who seized upon Bishop Morlino's letter to attack the SSPX...to insist that the SSPX is an evil, Church-hating, Pope-hating schismatic outfit, harbor deep hatred toward the SSPX.
Even with the inclusion of the shun-the-SSPX exhortation in Bishop Morlino's original letter in question, there wasn't anything in Bishop Morlino's letter that justified the deep hatred of the SSPX that exists among many Catholics.
Again, Bishop Morlino's original letter has revealed, excluding himself, that within the Church, deep rage and hatred exists for the Society of Saint Pius X.
Sorry to sound pessimistic, but even in light of Bishop Morlino's apology in question, I doubt that the SSPX haters will heed the Remnant's call to treat the SSPX with brotherly love.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
I would, please, to follow up on my last statement...that "even in light of Bishop Morlino's apology in question, I doubt that the SSPX haters will heed the Remnant's call to treat the SSPX with brotherly love."
ReplyDeleteA major problem that surrounds the SSPX is that there are two extreme parties, one is anti-SSPX, the other is pro-SSPX, who are entrenched in the past.
The anti-SSPX folks live as if the SSPX excommunications are in effect. They live as if Rome-SSPX relations remain frigid and almost seemingly at an impasse.
This isn't 1988 A.D. This isn't 1978 A.D.
The days are over when the situation between Rome and the SSPX was bleak. It seemed safer then to have banked upon Rome reversing Vatican II rather than the announcement of a Rome-SSPX agreement.
Unfortunately, there are pro-SSPX folks who are also entrenched in the past in regard to the Rome-SSPX situation. The continue to espouse their "Modernist Rome, NewChurch, invalid Novus Ordo Mass, Rome is out to trap us" nonsense.
Even when Pope Francis declared that SSPX absolutions would be recognized as valid throughout the Year of Mercy, said folks espoused their "evil Pope Francis hates the SSPX and is determined to trap the SSPX...it's a modernist trick...fantasies.
Despite the Remnant's call for Catholics to treat the SSPX with brotherly love, I remain convinced that the anti-SSPX extremists will not relent in their vicious attacks against the Society.
Conversely, I believe that there are pro-SSPX extremists who will continue to espouse their Pope-Francis-really-hates-the-SSPX-hates-the-TLM-hates-Holy-Tradition-and-is-determined-to-trap-then-destroy-the-Society nonsense.
However, I believe that there is a sound, healthy, and expanding group within the Church who, despite some problems within the SSPX...and there are problems within the SSPX...realize that overall, the SSPX and Faithful attached to the Society are Catholics who love God and His True Church.
One thing is certain. From his days in Argentina to date, His Holiness Pope Francis has been a friend to the SSPX. He noted recently that "several "Brother Bishops" have informed him of the SSPX's "good faith and sacramental practice."
People who are pro-SSPX (not the pro-SSPX extremists noted above) have Pope Francis' ear.
The group of Catholics who have goodwill toward to the SSPX and desire a Rome-SSPX agreement will continue to expand. The overall positive nature of the SSPX is impossible to ignore.
I am sorry, anti-SSPX extremists. You live in the past.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Anonymous (Angelo) September 13, 2015 at 11:04 AM..."Deo Gratias for Bishop Morlino. How I wish the Society of St. Pius X would quickly reconcile (reconcile? They are the true Church)."
ReplyDeleteAngelo, the reconciliation that the SSPX requires concerns their canonical situation within the Church. The SSPX does not posses regular canonical within the Church. Rome and the SSPX must solve that problem.
The Society of Saint Pius X is, without doubt, Catholic. They are within the True Church.
Canonical recognition from Rome would, as Bishop Schneider noted, infuse within the Church a "considerable force for a renewal of the Church..."
Imagine the tremendous renewal within the Church that a regularized SSPX would help to launch!
Imagine if the SSPX were free to operate within a structure granted by Rome to protect the Society from those who desire to thwart the Society's holy mission. Wow!
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Mark Thomas, Your comments are full of mixed messages. What gives you the idea that we are entrenched in the past? We live for today, we love the Church, not your idea of yesterday but the Church today founded by Christ 2000 years ago. You are out of tune with your understanding of the SSPX and those Catholics who are in their favor. The SSPX in reality needs no reconciliation, it is they who oppose the Society that need Canonical recognition, because they are no longer Catholic. They proclaim V2 but in practice reject the whole Council. They have each invented their own idea of the Council and the lie that they are doing according to the Council. The SSPX is not a poor little thing that we should pity. It is rather a giant that holds and proclaims Truth in a manner most pleasing to God who is the Truth.
DeleteAngelo
Angelo, I am not out of tune with my understanding of the SSPX. I have followed the SSPX closely since the 1970s.
DeleteI agree with Bishop Schneider's recent SSPX-related comments. He said that there are problems within the Society.
Bishop Schneider has emphasized that it is necessary for the SSPX to receive canonical recognition from Rome.
The good news is that Bishop Schneider stated cautiously that he is unaware of any weighty reasons that would prevent Rome from granting canonical recognition to the SSPX.
Unfortunately, as Bishop Schneider, noted, the SSPX has a problem when it comes speaking and acting in respectful fashion. He said that the SSPX must address that problem.
He said that the SSPX must "avoid incorrect and exaggerated expressions and judgements."
Bishop Schneider also noted that the "SSPX makes some theological criticism of some not strictly dogmatic affirmations in the texts of Vatican II and of some postconciliar documents, which have to be taken seriously.
"Unfortunately their criticism lacks sometimes the due respectful form."
Sorry, Angelo, but problems exist within the SSPX.
But that doesn't change the overall fact that they are Catholic and once regularized, they will led many additional Catholics to the TLM and Holy Tradition.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Angelo said..."What gives you the idea that we are entrenched in the past?"
DeleteAngelo, I said that there are two extreme groups within the Church who, in regard to Rome-SSPX relations, are stuck in the past.
The SSPX itself is not stuck in the past. The overall TLM Movement, to which I belong, is not stuck in the past.
The TLM represents the Church's, particularly the Latin Church's, great future.
But the two extreme groups in question are stuck in the past.
1. The anti-SSPX crowd is finished. The "shun the SSPX" attitude, which was featured in Bishop Morlino's original letter in question, is finished.
The SSPX is "schismatic" crowd is finished.
On the other hand, pro-SSPX fanatics, within and without the SSPX...that is, fanatics who insist that "Rome is trying to trap us. Pope Francis hates the TLM and SSPX. We shouldn't trust the Pope. We don't trust 'Modernist" Rome...
...those extremists are finished.
His Holiness Pope Francis has ushered in a new, beautiful, and peaceful era for the relationship between Rome and the SSPX.
Fortunately, many fanatics within the SSPX...those who accuse Bishop Fellay of planning to "sell out the Society to 'modernist' Rome"...have been reduced in number as they have joined Bishop Williamson's ridiculous "resistance" group.
However, there remain some within the SSPX who are so extreme that they despise Bishop Fellay and create problems within the SSPX.
Again, the good news is that the SSPX today has fewer extremists within its midst than was the case one year ago...two years ago.
There also exist outside the SSPX pro-SSPX types who don't attend SSPX chapels, but are anti-"modernist'-Rome extremists who appreciate that the SSPX has preserved the TLM.
They appreciate the SSPX. They offer support for the SSPX. But are convinced that His Holiness Pope Francis is determined to "trap," the destroy the SSPX.
Said pro-SSPX extremists do not help the SSPX. They only give anti-SSPX Catholics ammunition to fire at the SSPX.
Anti-SSPX Catholics say..."look at the extremists who support the SSPX. The extremists hate Rome, hate the Pope, believe in all sorts of conspiracy theories...if that's the kind of crowd that the Society attracts, then good riddance to the SSPX."
Pro-SSPX, anti-Pope Francis, anti-Rome extremists do not in any way help the SSPX.
But they and their "Pope Francis hates the SSPX, TLM, and is determined to trap the SSPX" nonsense has been discredited.
They are finished. The anti-SSPX folks are finished.
Deo gratias, as the result of His Holiness Pope Francis' positive attitude toward the SSPX, the Rome-SSPX relationship has moved toward a better day.
Now, it's up to the SSPX to heed Bishop Athanasius Schneider's' call for the SSPX to fix certain problems within the Society.
I am hopeful that Rome will soon grant canonical recognition to the SSPX.
Angelo, let's pray for that day to arrive shortly.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Mark, I hear you. But on one point, the issue with Traditionalists who do not trust Pope Francis, there is good reason for that. Lets not forget that Pope Francis crushed a thriving Franciscan Order that numbered 800 priests and brothers and 400 Nuns. The actions he allowed for their destruction is already in history as the most unjust and deplorable act against faithful Catholics. The founder of the Order, Fr Manelli today is still under house arrest and Rome will not give an answer as to, why? Then take the 4 Bishops suspended by Pope Francis, in which the Pope gave as the sole reason that they were friendly to Tradition. Bishop Livieres has since died without ever having been given a reason for his suspension, for which he had in all justice the right to know. This is the reason for peoples distrust of Pope Francis. Tell me, are we being extremists with unfounded concerns?
DeleteAngelo
The strong objections of very many Cardinals and Bishops inside the Curia against Pope Francis with regard to the moto propriios and calling them "Catholic divorce" and spot on correct. There is (validated by many journalists in Rome), strong and increasing violent opposition to Pope Francis and his agenda in the Vatican and across the world by Bishops and Cardinals and thousands of priests and millions of faithful Catholics.
ReplyDeleteI wonder what the "physical violence" against the Pope is? I know and have read that Bishops etc. in the Vatican are now showing him little respect,Unheard of under Benedict XVI.
With Pius XII, people genuflected as he passed. Days long gone.
But in the long run, because of his radical agenda etc. Francis deserves it.
Damian Malliapalli
The Bishop said he did not want the line included, but it went out anyway.
ReplyDelete(Someone else's fault)
He took responsibility for it, and on live, nation-wide television, apologized for it.
(Acting like a leader and true Catholic)
I'll side with Bishop Morlino on this one.
When does nasty old Gaybriel apologize to readers or this blog, not to mention Our Lord, for his nasty comments? At least Pilate washed his hands...
ReplyDeleteAnd he says: "Look at me, I'm projecting!'
ReplyDeleteMore shaken and rattled than ever before.
Damian Malliapalli said..."I know and have read that Bishops etc. in the Vatican are now showing him little respect,Unheard of under Benedict XVI."
ReplyDeleteI thought that the popular narrative was that during Pope Benedict XVI;s reign, the Vatican was filled with Churchmen who despised Pope Benedict XVI.
I thought that the narrative was that the Vatican was (and remains) filled supposedly with Churchmen who despised Pope Benedict XVI and were determined to destroy his Pontificate.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
This is true I think Mark. Many despised Benedict XVI for not 'crushing the modernists' while he was Pope and have the utmost contempt for him for abdicating. These people hate Benedict more than they do Pope Francis.
DeleteThat we despised Pope Benedict XVl for not 'crushing the modernists' and that we despise him more than we do Pope Francis, is a total myth. Where do such ideas come from? Pope Benedict XVl and St. John Paul ll in the reform of the reforms crushed every modernist error. The problem! No one obeyed them. How I have desired that a person with the skills write a book detailing how and when this was done. It would be an amazing book, that would remind Catholics and inform those who did not follow these Holy Pontiffs of how the Modernist Heresy was completely demolished in two Papacy's. I know, because I followed closely what these 2 Popes said and did. If one would look back at what the Holy Pontiffs did to the Modernist heresy, one would know that by Papal Authority Modernism is officially DEAD!
DeleteAngelo
Will Gary M Voris and CMtv print or make a video retraction in good Faith ?
ReplyDeletehttp://www.churchmilitant.com/news/article/have-nothing-to-do-with-them-says-winsconsin-bishop-about-sspx
I agree that many people hated and despised Benedict XVI when he was Pope. The radical liberals who eventually brought in Francis hated Benedict XVI because of his half-way gestures in favor of Catholic tradition, and his openness towards the Tridentine Latin Mass and restoration of a fraction of the Papal pomp. This was the radical group lead by Cardinals Sodano, Re, Kasper et al.
ReplyDeleteThe other wing were the hard-liners, who elected Benedict XVI because they thought he would clean house in the Church and crush the modernists. When he proved to be a jellyfish in this regard, they hated him, and had nothing but contempt for him when he chose to resign....they saw/see him as a coward, which unfortunately is true.
So when I said that there is not rising and violent opposition to Francis in the Curia and around the world among Cardinals, Bishops, etc. this is a good thing because Francis agenda is evil, and a radital liberal rejection of Catholic belief and tradition.
But I also agree that there was the same kind of feeling against Benedict from the opposing side.
Of course, those who opposed Benedict XVI were/are not truly Catholics, while those who are increasingly opposing Francis ARE true Catholics who wish to save the Church. That's the difference.
Surely you must be speaking for yourself when you say, "angry with him for not crushing the Modernists."
DeleteHe was dismissing one Bishop a month, at great difficulty, since so many diocese are ruled by modernists in the chancery.
Thank God for Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, but for him the the True Traditional Mass would be extinct. We need the Consecration of Russia and Marys protection in these satanic times we are living through.
ReplyDeleteLittle Jacinta of Fatima prayed all the time for Our Holy Father the Pope.
If we wish to reduce the preservation of the Traditional Latin Mass to one man (the servant God employed to preserve His Mass), then that man is Father Gommar DePauw, not Archbishop Lefebvre.
ReplyDeleteFather DePauw founded the Traditionalist Catholic Movement. He was far and away the one man on earth who had kept the TLM alive.
During the 1960s, long before the world had heard of Archbishop Lefebvre and the SSPX, Father Gommar DePauw was a famous priest who served as a peritus at Vatican and was honored by Pope Venerable Paul VI.
Father DePauw, working out of New York, received tremendous national and international news media coverage for his determination to preserve the TLM.
Father DePauw and his Catholic Traditionalist Movement were world-famous.
Father DePauw via travel, TV, radio, and print, the message to preserve and promote the TLM.
He inspired many priests and laymen to preserve the TLM.
During the 1970s, Archbishop Lefebvre, via the SSPX, emerged as the key player in the movement to preserve and promote the TLM. His role in that regard must be honored.
But long before that time, Father DePauw was absolutely the man who was most responsible for having preserved and promoted the TLM.
Father Gommar DePauw is far and away the Traditionalist Movement's key figure.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
September 14, 2015 at 12:15 AM
ReplyDeleteGabriel said..."This is true I think Mark. Many despised Benedict XVI for not 'crushing the modernists' while he was Pope and have the utmost contempt for him for abdicating. These people hate Benedict."
Yes.
In fact, long before he had become Pope, many Traditionalists despised then-Cardinal Ratzinger. They insisted that he was a "modernist."
It was common practice in many Traditionalist publications to print the famous photograph of Father Ratzinger attending Vatican II dressed in a suit and tie.
That photograph of Father Ratzinger in "civilian" clothes proved supposedly that he was a modernist.
You are correct about the scorn that many Traditionalists heaped (and continue to heap) upon Pope Benedict XVI for having resigned the Papacy.
I recall at the time of his resignation that many comment boxes on Traditionalist blogs were filled with claims that he had resigned as part of his supposed secret plan to destroy the Papacy.
Many Traditionalists claimed that he desired to transform Papacy into "just an ordinary job...just another occupation"...to demystify the Papacy.
Incredibly, there are Traditionalists who believe that. Oh, well.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Did you take a poll?
DeleteTL:DR Mark. thanks
DeleteYes. I polled many Traditionalist blogs in 2013 A.D. I read their comment boxes. Many believed that Pope Benedict XVI resigned the Papacy as part of his plan to demystify the Papacy.
ReplyDeleteEven today, many Traditional Catholics continue to espouse conspiracy theories as to why Pope Benedict XVI resigned.
There are Traditionalists who insist that Pope Benedict XVI remains the "real" Pope...that his resignation remains invalid.
Unfortunately, conspiracy theories of all sorts are popular with many Traditionalists.
Pope Francis is out to trap the SSPX...the Vatican is controlled by (take your pick) Jews, homosexuals, communists, Freemasons, modernists.
Bishop Fellay has signed a secret deal with Rome to sellout the SSPX.
One of my favorite conspiracy theories has the real Pope Venerable Paul VI kidnapped by Modernists who replace him with a lookalike. During the 1970s, I recall vividly having encountered that conspiracy theory in Traditionalist publications.
They used to publish close-up photos of the "real" Pope Venerable Paul VI's ears, then compare them to the "imposter" Pope's ears.
While all of the above is nonsense, I happen to know for a fact that the following conspiracy is true. I am not at liberty to reveal my source, but on Tuesdays, Thursdays, and for four hours each Saturday (from 2:00 P.M. to 6 P.M. Rome time), the Vatican is controlled by a group of Star Trek enthusiasts who wear pointed ears and are out to trap the SSPX.
Once trapped, SSPX bishops and priests will be placed aboard a United Federation of Planets space ship where they will be rocketed into space and consigned forever to the Romulan Neutral Zone.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Let's see the data then. It sounds most scientific.
DeleteAll credit to Bp. Morlino. I hope his apology gets as much publicity among the friends of the SSPX as his early remarks did. It's good to hear of a bishop with some moral courage.
ReplyDelete