Illustrious Masonic Progressive Roundtable
The Grand Orient, which is very sensitive to the topic Second Vatican Council, gathered an illustrious progressive roundtable. The "secret council” which is so important to the most influential Italian obedience that the Grand Master personally went into action. A separate chapter ("Freemasons at the Council") is dedicated to the aproned brothers. Neither book nor chapters are an indictment, but more of a "home game" as the Grand Master said. Next to the author, Ignazio Ingrao, sat Stefano Bisi the new Grand Master of the Grand Orient of Italy, Alberto Melloni is head of the progressive "school of Bologna", which still holds, not least with the help of the German Bishops Conference, a near monopoly in the official interpretation of the Council and propagated the thesis of a positive break from the preconciliar period. The gender theologian, Marinella Perroni, a New Testament Scholar at the Pontifical Benedictine University of Saint Anselm in Rome has an affinity to this camp. The presentation was in the hands of the left-Catholic journalist Marco Polite. A remarkable dialogical networking existed between progressive parts of the Catholic Church and Freemasonry.“Anticipate” the Church of Tomorrow
The Grand Orient of Italy, writes on its website about the book: "To understand a so innovative and paradigmatic event as the Second Vatican Council was, and not to do that through an official version, but by testimonies and previously unpublished documents, offers the possibility to go to the roots of what is happening today in the Catholic Church. To study the Council of yesterday will help us anticipate the church of tomorrow. Pope Francis has picked up the testimony of his predecessors [Pope John XXIII. and Paul VI.] and taken the strong and determined commitment to implement the Council. The church in dialogue, which is aligned to the margins, as the Argentine Pope wants it, is the model that the Council Fathers wanted to carry out. "
Council Almost a “Home Game" for Freemasons?
At the end of the book presentation, Grandmaster Bisi said: "It would be really happy to know what Pope Francis thinks of Freemasonry". In his speech, the Grand Master was pleased about the "open dialogue" of parts of the Church on issues such as "human rights". "The Council” has here "extraordinary achievements”. Sometimes the dialogue about the Council appeared to him as a "home game", "I am deeply convinced that there can be fruitful contacts between the Catholic Church and other faiths in the field of human rights and freedom. I think it's time to one more than to separate and I am convinced that a valuable point of encounter and dialogue can be found. "Alluding to the 20th September, in which Freemasonry celebrates its annual victory of the state over the Church, the Grand Master said: "The next September 20th is to be celebrated because of another breach, a breach that is used to break down walls that separate the different worlds, who would like to meet. There is a great need for connections. That was also the message of the Second Vatican Council, which has opened a new era in the Catholic world 50 years ago. A message that is now charged by the pontificate of Bergoglio with a new and very strong innovative thrust that comes from the will of the church to model in their physiognomy new, a review of the pastoral care of interpersonal relationships, an appreciation of the methods that were initiated by those extraordinary meetings, which took place from 1962 to 1965 under Popes John XXIII. and Paul VI. in an open and democratic debate and intense listening to the society. "
The journalist Stefano Bisi has been since April 6, 2014, the Grand Master of the Grand Orient of Italy , and thus succeeds Gustavo Raffi. Bisi comes from the Socialist-Masonic milieu of Tuscany and Umbria. The Grand Orient of Italy, founded in Milan in 1805 goes back to Napoleon's stepson, Eugene Beauharnais, the first Grand Master who was vice-king of Italy, that was a vassal state of France.
Text: Giuseppe Nardi
image: Grande Oriente d’Italia
Trans: Tancred vekron99@hotmail.com
Katholisches…
AMGD
image: Grande Oriente d’Italia
Trans: Tancred vekron99@hotmail.com
Katholisches…
AMGD
The bottom line then is the Second Vatican Council and it's 'spirit' is garbage. The only 'fruit' from it is now dead and stinking. The Catholic Faith that has remained throughout the ages, though perhaps now a remnant, continues to be ready for her Divine Spouse.
ReplyDeleteDon't fall for the propaganda above.
ReplyDeleteIt's like a desperate Cardinal Kaspar saying that the Council is 'ambigous'.
He would be willing to settle for less, if he really knew that the Council, without the false inference, was as traditional as the SSPX on other religions and Christians communities.
After Vatican Council II (1965) many Catholics gave up their religious vocation, since the secular media, still controlled by the Left, projected Vatican Council II interpreted with an irrational inference.All salvation was projected as being VISIBLE to us on earth. So the Council became a break with Tradtion. This was accepted by the popes since they were not aware that a false premise, was being used.IOr if they were aware they were not willing to say it in public.They were not willing to affirm extra ecclesiam nulla salus in public.
Neither was Archbishop Lefebvre or the SSPX bishops aware of it. We can see the proof in their writings.
This is the only thing Bisi has going for him. The ignorance on the use of the false premise in the interpretation of Vatican Council II and other magisterial documents.
It kind of misses the point. This article simply reveals the link between the Grand Orient and the devotees of Rupture theology and Bologna School.
ReplyDeleteThe issue is Vatican Council II. For Bisi the Council is a great victory.
DeleteIt is a victory since they have interpreted Vatican Council II with an irrational inference and the whole Church has accepted it, including the traditionalists.
Even you are not aware of it here.This highlights my point.
If Vatican Council II is interpreted without the false premise then Nostra Aetate is not an exception to extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
But for you ' a ray of the Truth' (NA 2) would be an exception to the dogma on salvation. If it is an exception for you then you are inferring that salvation in Heaven ( with a ray of the Truth ) is VISIBLE to you on earth.
Here is the Freemason victory.
I can interpret ' a ray of the Truth' rationally and say that it is not physically visible to me, it is not known to me.So it is NOT AN EXCEPTION to extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
When the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 confused the issue of implicit desire and being saved in invincible ignroance, they were saying there are exceptions to the dogma. Again we have the ' magisteriuim' promoting an irrationality. No pope has said that being saved with the baptism of desire does not refer to a known case in the present times.
So Vatican Council II is as traditional as Fr.Leonard Feeney. The pro-Masons in the Catholic Church would like you to settle for less.They say the Council is 'ambigous'. You do not object.
All I can say is, 'by their fruits you shall know them'. The 'fruits' of the Second Vatican Council have been a disaster for Catholicism and Christianity in general, particularly so in Europe and North America.
ReplyDeleteWith the perspective of 50 years the malign influence on the Council of Masonry and Talmudism is clear for all to see.
What is the point of engaging in 'dialogue' with hostile forces when their ultimate intention is to drive a knife into your back?
All I can say is, 'by their fruits you shall know them'. The 'fruits' of the Second Vatican Council have been a disaster for Catholicism and Christianity in general, particularly so in Europe and North America.
DeleteIt is because the enemies of the Chruch have interpreted Vatican Council II with a false premise.Traditionalists too are not aware of it.
The Council text is neutral.
There is no ambiguity unless you assume that all salvation mentioned or alluded to in Vatican Council II, is physically visible to us on earth and then conclude, irrationally, that these 'visible cases' are exceptions to traditional extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
Breathtaking. Essentially Masonry admitting that Vatican II fulfilled their need for the Church to accept the new society that had been created by Masonry over the last 200 years before the council.
ReplyDeleteThey did it by using an irrational interpretation of the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 and then Vatican Council II.
DeleteThe text of Vatican Council II without this irrational inference, is traditional.
And who allowed this irrational behavior? This ambiguous language has been admitted by 2 cardinals recently. But just recently discovered? The cone of silence all these years prove to me the church is not willing to admit the major mistakes made.
DeleteAllegedly, the Priest who mentored John Paul ll into the priesthood at one time in conversation warned him that Vatican ll was 'full of holes' and dangerous for the Church, but John Paul rationalized that they could be fixed along the way.
DeleteSt. Antony of Egypt (251-356)
ReplyDelete"Men will surrender to the spirit of the age. They will say that if they had lived in our day, faith would be simple and easy. But in their day, they will say, things are complex; the Church must be brought up to date and made meaningful to the day's problems. When the Church and the World are one, then those days are at hand. Because our Divine Master placed a barrier between His things and the things of the world."
Luke 18:1
"And he spoke also a parable to them, that we ought always to pray, and not to faint,"
St. Methodius († 311) "A day will come when the enemies of Christ will boast of having conquered the whole world. They will say: 'Christians cannot escape now!' But a Great King will arise to fight the enemies of God. He will defeat them, and peace will be given to the world, and the Church will be freed from her anxieties."
“The Church will be punished because the majority of her members, high and low, will become so perverted. The Church will sink deeper and deeper until she will at last seem to be extinguished and the succession of Peter and the other Apostles to have expired [an apparent defection of the hierarchy]. But after this she will be gloriously exalted in the sight of all doubters...” St. Nicholas of Flue, 15th century
Psalms 56:2
"Have mercy on me, O God, have mercy on me: for my soul trusteth in thee. And in the shadow of thy wings will I hope, until iniquity pass away."
Luke 24:3
"Jesus stood in the midst of them, and saith to them: Peace be to you; it is I, fear not."
God bless all!
Andy Sloan
DeleteCatholics do not want to affirm the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. This includes cardinals, bishops and priests. Now there are Catholics who are aware that Vatican Council II is in perfect agreement with the traditional intepretation of outside the church no salvation. Yet they will not affirm this. They want to protect their career or lifestyle or what not.
I don't think it's unreasonable to say that the statements in LG tend to affirm a contradictory position.
DeleteThere is no contradictory posiion in Lumen Gentium 16 on the Church and other religions and ecumenism . There is no contradiction if you avoid a simple false premise.
ReplyDeleteAll salvation referred to in Lumen Gentium is visible only to God and is INVISIBLE; physically, for us humans on earth.
Whether it is visible or not visible is important, since it is related to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
Luem Gentium 16 being saved in nvincible ignorance or a good conscience is considered an exception to all needing Catholic faith and baptism of water for salvation.
This would be true if this case was VISIBLE for us.
The same with LG 8.. We cannot see any one saved with 'subsistitit' etc.
The statements are written such that they admit either interpretation.
DeleteThe Grand Secret : Vatican Council II says all Hindus, Buddhists, Jews, Muslims, Protestants etc are lost
ReplyDeleteVatican Council II says all Hindus, Buddhists, Jews, Muslims and Protestants are lost but this is a secret in the Church and no one is talking about it.
Ad Gentes 7 says all need faith and baptism for salvation. We cannot name any one saved in invincible ignorance (LG 16) tc for them to be known exceptions to Ad Gentes 7.
If you keep the text of Ad Gentes 7 and Lumen Gentium 14 before you Vatican Council II is saying all need to convert into the Catholic Church.All need to be formal, visible members of the Catholic Church.Visible Catholic Faith and the baptism of water is needed.Outside the Church there is no salvation.
Vatican Council II is traditional on other religions and salvation.It is in agreement with the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
It is in agreement with the Society of St.Pius X (SSPX), the St.Benedict Centers,USA,the popes, Church Councils,saints and the Catechism of the Catholic Church (846,845,1257).
While those saved in invincible ignorance and a good conscience (LG 16) are only possibilities which we accept, these cases are not exceptions to AG 7 and LG 14. They are not exceptions since they are known only to God.They are not known to us in 2013.We cannot see these persons who are now in Heaven.
We cannot name anyone saved with the baptism of desire or elements of sanctification (LG 8).We personally do not know any exceptions, since those who are dead are not visible to us.
Yet for many Catholics, those saved in imperfect communion with the Church (UR), seeds of the Word etc are visible and known.So Vatican Council II for them is a break with the past.
No where in Nostra Aetate is it said that non Catholics do not have to convert in their religion or that they are saved in general in their religion.We cannot name any 'good and holy '(NA) non Catholic, who is saved and is an exception to all needing 'faith and baptism' in 2013 to go to Heaven and avoid the fires of Hell.
Vatican Council II is traditional. This is a grand secret.
-Lionel Andrades
VCii is traditional? But no one told the popes! They obviously mistook the signs then. They played to someone else's tune. If the council is a grand secret, then the pope's are not in on it.
DeleteThe statements are written such that they admit either interpretation.
ReplyDeleteLionel:
Only if you use the irratiional premise.
I think it inclines millions of people toward irrational inference, many more than would make the correct inference.
DeleteI think it inclines millions of people toward irrational inference, many more than would make the correct inference.
ReplyDeleteLionel:
I do not mean it in this vague way.
Analyse Ad Gentes 7.
Therefore, all must be converted to Him, made known by the Church's preaching, and all must be incorporated into Him by baptism and into the Church which is His body. For Christ Himself "by stressing in express language the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mark 16:16; John 3:5), at the same time confirmed the necessity of the Church, into which men enter by baptism, as by a door. -Ad Gentes 7,Vatican Council II
In this passage above Ad Gentes 7,Vatican Council II is saying all need to enter the Church for salvation. Extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
Then (AG 7) it could be inferred wrongly that there are known exceptions.This would be true if it is assumed that the dead saved in invincible ignorance are visible on earth.
Therefore though God in ways known to Himself can lead those inculpably ignorant of the Gospel to find that faith without which it is impossible to please Him (Heb. 11:6),...
We know that those saved in invincible ignorance are not visible to us on earth. These INVISIBLE cases are not an exception to Ad Gentes 7, when it states earlier, that all need 'faith and baptism'.
So Vatican Council II does not contradiict itself. The text does not contradict itself unless you infer that what is INVISIBLE for us is VISIBLE. This would be irrational. Yet this is the precise irrational inference that very one is using.
LG 16 ( invincible ignorance) and LG 8 ( elements of sanctification and truth) are considered to be VISIBLE exceptions to Ad Gentes 7 ( all need faith and baptism) and the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
How old are you? (I'm hoping 80ish)
Delete