What's also very bad is that some of his supporters are accusing Father West of slandering Mark Shea. Of course, they refuse to give proof of this. Elizabeth Scalia, Steven D. Greydanus, and George Lower have persistently and maliciously, accused Father Peter West of Human Life International of slandering Mark Shea. I've asked all of them repeatedly for proof indicating that, and they have steadfastly refused to answer and instead make personal attackes.
Any normal Catholic employer would be eager to deal with such insulting behavior immediately. Justice might best be served if all of them were summarily sent to pack up their desks and go home with a little severance pay.
When the Communications Director asked Father West and Mark Shea to cease their public disputation, here's what Mark Shea wrote disingenuously in return:
"Thank you, Fr. Peter, for breaking off your campaign of defamation, rash judgment and calumny against me. I hope you will consider my request that you go back and restore my good name with the readers you have poisoned against me instead of merely leaving what you have said and suggested about me to linger in the air. I bear you no ill will and am still reeling from this unwarranted and unprovoked attack."
This is statement from the Archdiocesan Communications Director, asking Father Peter West to cease his statements and handle his disagreement with Mark Shea privately:
FatherPeter West and Mark Shea, I respectfully request that you both make a sincere attempt to discuss your differences one to one, verbally or in writing, rather than continue as you have been. Judging from the communications our office is receiving, this contretemps is causing no little disquiet among a number of the faithful. At the least, please endeavour to communicate publicly in measured tones on this matter so as to avoid causing unnecessary confusion and distress. I thank you for you consideration.
Best,
Mike Donohue
Director of Communications
Office of Bishop Paul S. Loverde
Diocese of Arlington
The person the Communications Director should be talking to privately and not publicly on Facebook, is Mr. Shea, maybe a meeting involving a pink slip?
We'd also like to ask if Mark Shea plans on apologizing to Father Frank Pavone for slandering him?
48 comments:
Mark Shea should be censored by Rome. Even in the land of Modernism his self-proclaimed "Catholic expertise" is a horrifing scandal. Yes, he is a nothing little nobody but so is Spirit Daily and both should be stripped of the word "Catholic" and sued if they ever use it again.
I wish I could push a button and flush away all the neo-cat blogs of the world. Any of the NC Register types. They're mostly clones of each other anyway.
Fr. West should do what's right; Shea's 'gay saint' crap was a public scandal, and he should be rebuked publicly.
Mr Shea's shilling for homosexuals is, indeed, rather disgusting, but not surprising. He is apparently an ardent supporter of the rather weird Fr Sirico, former homosexual saint-turned-Catholic priest.
I was surprised to hear him attack Ryan for his Libertarianism on one hand and then defend cohabiting homosexuals on the other hand with the same argument.
I have met Shea and do not care what he has to write or say. He is something less than a paragon of orthodoxy although he thinks he is.
Mark Shea is someone I do not know but whom I have found has a very hard time dealing with rational statements that critique his views. Critiques of his articles, even brief, that appear in any of his postings are summarily deleted, almost immediately with no explanation given other than the typical Shea smarmy response "It's my website--go found your own blog."
It has been crystal clear to me, and is again evident in Mark Shea's letter which you quote, that Mark Shea is interested above all in one thing: that the numbers of people who visit his website have a positive opinion of him ("restore my good name with the readers you have poisoned against me...". Sorry Mark, I guess you can't delete the remarks published on other people's web sites. It is intellectually dishonest of Mr. Shea to delete posts that he feels might shed light on (numerous) flawed statements and arguments that he makes.
Surely, it is Shea who is the slanderer, unless he substantiates his accusation. Or is he too unspecific?
Anyway, Shea seems to think God should apologise for Sodom and Gommorah, so Fr West is, as we all know, anyway, in the right company.
Shea and I hide behind our computers and words:
Shea, meet the priest/man face to face, stand before the human created by God also, and have it out, coming to Jesus over this fight.
Mark Shea has done more than just "shill" for the queers. He has advocated for the decriminalization of homosexual acts. See this link: www.mark-shea.com/morality.html For this alone, he should be considered a heretic.
Disappointed in Eliz. Scalia - Mark Shea is extremely intolerant of opposing views and bans most that disagree with him. Not a paragon of virtue by any means.
Shea, Spirit Daily, Paul Laverde, Mike Donohue should be censored equally, by whom, who knows - There all in the same basket, "Modernism" anything goes, just Pray, Pay and Obey - thanks, but NO thanks - the whole hierarchy in the Novus Ordo stinks to the very top - Everybody lets just hold hands and all sing 'can't we all just get along if we look the other way' - seems this has been the problem all along with the flock of so called Bishops - remove the yellow streak from their backbone and get a spine. They sicken me
I've lost all respect for Mrs. Scalia. As for Shea, I thought something wasn't right about him for years.
Sept. 5th: this is the first I've heard of this controversy but I have long felt that Spirit Daily is almost a kind of superstitious site...they were good once but now - scary. Just my opinion.
I wish they'd change their position on Medjugorje.
http://contrapauli.blogspot.com/2012/03/mark-shea-brags-about-his-latest-raise.html
Shea gets paid more for higher traffic, so ... you know he's just ginning up more by his incessant comments. Maybe his car needs a new muffler?
How very quick people are to jump to the defence of Fr. West and turn a blind eye to the vicious comments directed at Mark Shea. Do not call yourselves Christians if you see nothing wrong a public flogging of a person at the hands of a priest. When you instigate a fight by a mean- spirited judgement of a person, then don't cry foul when that person defends their self. I suppose one shouldn't expect that a lay person like Mark Shea should be given a fair hearing when the accusations come from a priest. Shameful.
Just read this article. I did not take his response in the way that perhaps you took it. There's a huge difference between finding the homosexual 'act' (not person) immoral and wanting laws made to have them arrested for it. I find alcoholism and cigarette smoking immoral, and everyone knows they're unhealthy, but should we make laws to arrest those who drink and smoke? I find artificial birth control immoral ... but do we arrest those who don't? I have a friend who converted to Jehovah Witness who finds celebrating most 'holidays (holy days)' immoral. If JW's got into congress, should all of us be arrested for celebrating, say, Easter and Christmas? I should hope not. This world (in which Satan has reign) will never live perfectly. What I took from Shea's article was:
1. People who say that laws should be free of morality are wrong. ALL laws have some morality as their basis ... good/bad, right/wrong.
2. The laws that should be passed are those that keep people living somewhat harmoniously with one another. It is the 'bottom' line, as he said, not the top line. If we can't get people to love their neighbor, then we need to at least require that they don't kill or harm them.
I do not think Shea was saying that we need to make laws that change the definition of marriage! In fact, though I'm not a big follower of his, I recall reading one of his articles that said we should NOT change the definition of marriage. But, we just cannot criminalize homosexuals who don't live chastely. That's the bottom line part.
He has a snarky sense of humor and I sometimes think people don't get him. Like I said, I don't follow him all that much so perhaps he's changed his tune over the years, but I never found him in the past to be unorthodox.
Fr. West has repeatedly blocked anyone that questioned his accusations towards Mark Shea. So who is the intolerant one? Stop making statements.
****false statements****
Anon @ 8:53 AM, decent society has always criminalized acts of sodomy. from Biblical times to just recently, this vice was recognized as subversive to the health of the family and the community. The Church always backed severe laws, which in many cases included the imposition of the death penalty, to curb the practice. For Shea to say sodomy shouldn't be criminalized is outright heresy and scandal. And, IMHO, shows he's a liberal.
What's vicious about those statements?
Ok, what false statements? You Mark Shea supporters really seem like tormented demons to me, not a lot of rational substance, a lot of cursing and really awful insults directed at a Catholic priest who has a right to rebuke someone like Shea who has been abusing his position with the Catholic Church for years.
Kateo, say what!? "Vicious comments directed at Mark Shea?!" Oh, come on! Shea has used his blog and other platforms for years to make vicious comments about people who dared to disagreed with him. Yet when someone dare to disagree with him, it's "vicious".
Fr. West was not vicious toward Shea. He merely posted links to Mark's posts, and said, something isn't right with Shea's theology. He especially didn't like Mark's put downs of anti-abortion activists. Since Father is with HLI, I can see why he would feel that way.
So because I disagree with you, I am a 'tormented demon'? LOL!
The 'Gay saint' article pretty much condemns itself. I don't have facebook, I don't use facebook, so I don't know what's going on there, but somebody needed to correct the guy.
No, because when you discuss this issue, you don't make any sense, you just make hysterical and unintelligible comments filled with rage.
This article, by Thomas Herron which appeared in the respected CULTURE WARS journal, gives us a glimpse into the thought processes of Mr Shea and those whom he holds in high regard:
http://www.culturewars.com/2007/Sirico.htm
It is sometimes true that some who convert to Catholicism enjoy becoming "Professional Converts". We all know some of these people. It is my considered opinion that Mr Shea falls into this category. These professionals invariably find themselves acting as personal Pontiffs and hurl their anathemas at all and sundry. In Mr Shea's case though, there is something else at work and I suspect it is his twisted view of the crime of homosexuality. He is unable to see that homosexuality is the kind of unnatural vice capable of bringing down nations.
Mr Shea, like so many, have no grasp of history when it comes to this subject. And he is far from alone. When the subject of sodomy arises people simply begin to lose their marbles.
People who engage in 'adult' debates do not use Ad Hominems. I "make no sense, am hysterical and make unintelligible comments' - along with being a tormented demon with not a lot of rationally substance, a lot of cursing and really awful insults'. Anyone see the obvious hypocrisy with this post? It's not possible to discuss this matter with you with any hope of respect for the other's opinion.
Steve - I will provide which comments I am referring to, but you will have to give me a little time, as I am blocked from Fr. West's page. I do have other means of getting them - will just take me some time.
Okay, okay.... you have been asked to handle this as ADULTS! And the rest of you here need to act the same. The squabbling going on here is worse than I encountered as a teacher in Jr. high and High school. Let's grow-up and mind our own business!
I'm sorry, but you haven't said a single coherent thing since you posted on this subject.
You made an accusation against Father West, kindly substantiate your claims or refrain from posting here.
Thanks.
No one's squabbling. This post has been made in defense of Father West, who has been unjustly accused of slandering Mark Shea, a man who's bonifides as a character assassin and Liberal have been well-established.
If you wish to address those charges or dispute them, kindly restrict yourself to that rather than making non-specific accusations about the content of the forum.
Thanks.
Are are you the Moderator of this page? If so, I will refrain from posting here as you wish. If not, I will continue.
I'm sure you won't continue, because you have no proof of your venomous and childish accusations.
FatherPeter West Jesson Mata Mark often makes offensive remarks against people engaged in defending the Church on matters of sexual morality and life issues. It seems to me that he intended to shock people with his statement declaring a man he knew to be gay to be a saint. He then said that he didn't care nor was it his business if the man was chaste. Something is deeply wrong with Mark Shea. I hope he will be more careful in his speech in the future. I'd like to see him refrain from personal attacks on people in the pro-life movement. I wish he had as much compassion for them as he does for his late friend Perry.
FatherPeter West Abby Brannam Johnson He can dish it out, but he cant't take it.
I fail to see what's slanderous or even problematic with that statement.
Steve - Mark Shea's comment referring to the man were misunderstood in that he is not saying a person living out a homosexual lifestyle can be canonized - but rather living a chaste life while a homosexual. It is unfair for Fr. to promote a false picture of what Mark wrote. There are posts from numerous bloggers that cut Mr. Shea to shreds, yet Fr. did nothing to stop it, even though he was the only one who could have. I can post some of those comments here if you did not read them. For me, this is not fraternal correction - something I agree every priest has a mandate to do if the Faith is being challenged. No, this was choosing to allow an all- out bashing of a man - publicly. How can this be the work of the Holy Spirit?
Mark didn't care whether or not his Gay Saint was living in celibacy and said so. That's a problematic statement for reasons outlined by Father himself, and if Mark is being attacked for this, he has only himself to blame for it.
Unfortunately, there wasn't that much attention given to Mark's outrageous statement when it happened, but Mark makes all sorts of outrageous statements, doesn't he, and will probably continue to do so in the future on behalf of the Catholic Church until someone finally decides to remove him.
Mark, like a lot of dissident clergy and Catholic figures who dissent from Catholic teaching in various ways, should really decide whether or not he wants to be at the mercy of the zeitgeist, a protestant minister, or a Catholic writer.
He would do well to knock off as a Catholic blogger altogether, but I resent that Catholic entities support this person.
The Catankerous Anchoress is at it again I see, along with her cronies - the Deacon and the infamous Mark Shea. That anyone would give any of them the right time of day is beyond me let alone read what they have to say.
What Catholic in their right mind cares what any of them think?
Father West is to be commended, and the three stooges ought to be banished into cyberspace.
I've heard the name Mark Shea for a long time but not until I read his article about the "gay saint" did I realize what a heretical blowhard he is. He needs to leave the Faith and go to any one of a number of "Christian" denominations that accept homosexual deviancy, abortion murder, pornography and other vile behaviour. This man is sick and needs to removed as a cancerous growth.
You don't say... the "he said...." "then he said..." or "I heard...." It is gossiping..... a sin in the Catholic CHurch the last time I looked at the Catechism! And then there is the obedience issue "to handle it privately...".. oh right, they were told to handle it privately.... we can continue the issue without minding our own business.... you are encouraging others to be uncharitable.... of course, you will have a response to what I have said....
Shea is pure, stinky, spiritual flatulence. May the wind of the Holy Spirit come and blow him away.
People have talked privately to Shea. He doesn't care. I would ask you in a spirit of charity to do what you are asking others here and mind your own business.
Anons and Amy, I agree with you that Shea needs to be removed for any position of influence in the church. However, in the spirit of Christian charity, he should not be banished from the church until his bishop and parish priest have an opportunity to reason with him. If they fail to get through to him, then we should start raising a stink until the at-large Catholic community says to Shea and his supporters, "Enough is enough!"
A picture is worth a thousand words:
http://contrapauli.blogspot.com/2012/09/top-tips-for-faithful.html#comment-form
EWTN now owns the 'Register', they employ the ultra-modernist, 'shea'. If Sister Angelica was on her feet he & 'siroco' would not be a part of anything EWTN was involved in.
I find Mr. Shea to be vicious, lacking in grace, mercy, humility and charity. He's banned me from his site for saying so. Sounds like I'm in good company.
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