This is a translation from the usually well-informed German summorumpontificum.de, who says that their own well-informed source has some information about the new Missal, which was coupled with their announcement of the good news of the formal recognition of Papa Stronsay at the Diocese of Aberdeen in Scottland.
- Allowance of the usage of new prefaces for all feasts, which correspond to the Novus Ordo prefaces;
- General allowance of the Traditional Mass to be celebrated "versus populum";
- Permission to say the Liturgy of the Word in the language of the people [which facilitates the use of the Cramner table];
The desire for "liturgical engineering" in the appropriate Vatican authorities therefore seems unchanged -- at least in so far as it relates to a direction "away from Tradition".
50 comments:
These people simply cannot keep their grubby fingers off the traditional missal. It is simply disgusting and I will ignore it completely.
And I would advise everyone else to ignore it completely.
I reject it in it's entirety. Let them keep introducing more and more bogus, invented liturgy. All of them will fall to dust, the novus ordo first. May it all be in my lifetime.
"They", whoever they may be, might as well forget it. Traditionalists are too well organized - and frankly care too much - for this to work. Heck, they have survived fifty years of Vatican II!
When the Pope, caving in to noisy Jewish pressure groups, actually re-worded the Good Friday prayer for the conversion of the Jews, that was the signal that moe tampering of the Old Right was in the offing.
My dear Vatican: stop fussing with a Rite that has nourished the Church for twenty centuries. If you are bored and looking for something to do with your time, how about disciplining some wayward Catholic prelates? Suggestions? Start with the despicable Donald Wuerl and go on from there.
Their lust for novelty is insatiable. I'll never touch it.
Party like it's 1965.
This 'news' bears no credibility. Until there is any official 'source', or identified source, I refuse to entertain such journalism. It reminds me of the National Enquirer.
This is bogus journalism. summorumpontificum.de should identify its source. It seems more like gossip and rumour than fact.
The Vatican-2 heretic cult (founded in 1965 at the Vatican) *cannot possibly be* the Catholic Church … since it *enforces* the opposite, the opposite, and the opposite of the Catholic Dogma.
The founding documents of the vatican-2 heretic cult … the “vatican-2 council” documents … have well over 200 heresies *against* prior defined Dogma.
Site > Immaculata-one (dot) com
Section 12 > Anti-Christ vatican-2 heresies (50 listed) ... followed by many Catholic corrections
Sections 13 and 13.1 > Photographic *proof* of heresy at the Vatican
Because of … the Catholic Dogma on automatic excommunication for heresy or for physical participation in a heretic cult (such as the V-2 cult) …
… we were all placed, body and soul, outside of Christianity (the Catholic Church) on 8 December 1965 … the close date of the “council”.
Section 13.2 > Catholic Dogma on automatic excommunication for heresy or participating in a heretic cult such as ... vatican-2, lutheran, methodist, evangelical, etc.
Section 19.1 > Dogma on Abjuration for *re-entering* Christianity (the Catholic Church) … after being automatically excommunicated. A Formal Abjuration is also provided here.
Section 13.3 > Matt 16:18, Gates of Hell scripture ... is *not* about the Papacy ... defined at Constantinople II
Section 10.2 > Returning to a state of grace, in places and times when Confession is not available, like now
Mike
Our Lady of Conquest
Pray for us
Freemasons go on about their burn centers all the time when people question their other activities and illicit behavior.
Yeah, orthodoxy's overrated.
I'm not a journalist, try again.
Not only that, but since you know about journalism, apparently, you also know that they don't always reveal their sources.
Last Sunday, I attended a Traditional Carmelite Mass that's only subtly different from the TLM. Thank God that no one is tampering with that elegant rite, yet. Maybe someone needs to remind the Vatican Modernists should reread what Quo Primum and the Council of Trent say about received and approved rites. Unfortunately, even if the do reread it, they probably couldn't care less about the bull and the council tell us.
SSPX, don't compromise. You have the Faith. Modernists only think they have it.
Dan, maybe the tinkerers need to start with themselves.
If you think Rome compromised, why can't the SSPX?
Tancred, we all have the duty to seek the truth. Catholic Bloggers are not exempt from that duty. Giving a platform to unsubstantiated rumours as if they are facts is a disservice to the Church. I don't have my head in the sand. I know there are Modernists in the Vatican. But please, for the love of truth, let's present facts. That's my concern here.
I do believe that a "new" Traditional Missal will be forthcoming, and that it will contain unneeded new prefaces. The Holy Father has said as much.
What I do not believe is that this "new-old" Missal will encourage the celebration of the TLM versus populum. This would be not only inconsistent, but profoundly inconsistent with everything the Holy Father has written and uttered regarding the direction of liturgical prayer. This one I'd really have to see to believe.
With the exception of Byzantine St. James (which was dictated by Christ Himself from heaven to his foster brother), ALL liturgies, including the Tridentine Mass, are invented.
This sounds like a totally unsubstantiated rumor to me. Period.
Considering what's been going on with various traditional groups in union with Rome, what goes on with the Liturgy at Indult-type communities, and the quality of summorumpontificum.de's usual information, it's very substantial.
If summorumpontificum.de says they have a reliable source, I trust them. If you don't have your head in the sand, you know this is very likely the case that this reportage will materialize in time.
I've been reminded of why I stopped visiting this blog awhile ago. I'll stick with rorate-caeli for my traditional Catholic postings, for their integrity and prudence in what they post.
You're accusing me of lacking integrity? Are you sure that's prudent?
It's strange that some disbelieve this reportage. After all, Benedict XVI himself has spoken of a desire for "mutual enrichment." In other words, a hybrid Mass. As if poison - the Novus Ordo - could possibly provide any enrichment!
Oh dear, Jack. Not again. Do I really have to waste keyboard time answering such things? Dear Jack: the authentic Rites of the Catholic Church all grew ORGANICALLY OVER CENTURIES. Full stop. That is not the same thing at all as a group of people who get together over a period of a few months and concoct a new Rite out of thin air (like the Novus Ordo of 1969).
Wearily I remind Jack to read Gamber, Fortescue and Davies.
Elizabeth: I have no idea why you would think this an unsubstantiated rumor. The Vatican is quite clear about this and have already floated the idea. Even the Rorate site, which you admire, has reported this in the past. In other words, it is very well known.
That excellent British publication, CHRISTIAN ORDER, had a brilliant article about a year ago on this very subject. It was written by James Larson, a good observer of all things Roman, and he used documented sources, most of them being from the mouths of the personages in question, including Benedict.
Now either Rome is blowing smoke, or simply testing the waters, I don't know. I do know that further tampering with the traditional Missal is very much on their minds.
"You're accusing me of lacking integrity? Are you sure that's prudent?"
Oh she's correct. Right on.
Right on!
Read Quo primum.
It says that the Pian Missal was cobbled together by a post conciliar commission, just like the Novus Ordo.
They standardized one main usage and cleared out some of the newer local usages that were fraying the unity of the Rite. Doesn't mean it didn't exist before. I'm so tired of your schtick. Rorate was annoying enough without it.
The Revolutionaries will go to any length to justify their demolition of the Liturgy, even anachronistic arguments like Jack's.
If it isn't rumour, then where is the liturgical committee working on the "project"? In some secret room in the deep recesses of the Vatican Library or something? When the Church revises a Missal it is a huge affair, with a lot of people involved, to review the texts, etc. It simply not the pattern of how things operate, even after the Council. The Novus Ordo wasn't even designed in secret, but by the mish-mash ridiculous committee and all their meetings. Let's discuss facts, not rumours, for the love of God.
I suppose it doesn't matter that the "project" which they've been working on has already been publicized.
http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2012/01/revisions-of-1962-missal-coming-soon.html
Facts, not rumors, Tradman.
Forget it. We should be going back to the pre-"reformed" Missal before Pius XII let Bugnini get his grubby hands on it.
The Una Voce article you are referring to does not claim that any project is on the go -- only that it 'could be proposed in the near future'. A hypothetical possibility is not an authorized project on the go. The neo-cons would love the 1965 Missal for sure. They can talk all they want over their italian espressos but that does not create any liturgical commission.
Oh, just a rumor. Got it.
This so-called plan to change the missal is an inflated assumption. There is no tread to this story -- nothing but talk encouraging frantic worry by those who are ready to believe anything they hear. What a waste of time to have been reading this thread.
Methinks the lady protest too much.
"Procul, procul este a sacro ordine novitatum amor: superbos et contumaces animos odit Deus!" ["Far, far from the clergy be the love of novelty! God hates the proud and the obstinate mind."] —Pope St. Pius X, Sacrorum Antistitum
This is EXACTLY the kind of action these Modernists would undertake. And by their track record they deserve our every suspicion.
Celebration facing the people is already permitted in the missal of 1570, please see Ritus Servandus V:3.
"Si Altare sit ad Orientem, versus populum, Celebrans versa facie ad populum, non vertit humeros ad Altare..."
.... in some places, Liturgical East was versus populum... particularly in pilgrimage churches.
PS In recent centuries the practice of orientating churches has been widely ignored. For example, at St Aloysius, the Oxford Oratory church, the original altar faced west. The reordered freestanding altar allows the celebrant to face east, but facing the people (like the Vatican Basilica). So how does one apply the instruction I cited above in this instance? Which position is more faithful to the letter and spirit of the law?
Our Lord warns Blessed Anna Catherin Emmerich that in the future a "New Mass" would come: (Life of Anne Catherine Immerich by the Rev. Carl E. Schmoger, C.SS.R., Vol. I, p.318-319, pub. 1867) "...The books of piety, the ancient formulas of prayer, the time-honored cnaticles of praise, were exchanged for modern productions as miserable and impious as were those by which the Missal, the breviary, and the ritual were replaced".
To the Catholic Mystic and Stigmatist, Marie-Julie Jahenney (1850-1939), Our Lord warns in 1902 that a "New Mass" would come that would be "Odious" in His sight.
In the Fatima Crusader, Issue #'s 80,p.32 and 92,p.7, Father Bollinger, in 2000, personal friend of then Cardinal Ratzinger and Pope John Paul II, Theologian and Seminary Professor, frequent visitor to the Vatican and considered of the highest integrity and reputation, after concelebrating a Mass with Cardinal Ratzinger asked him if Rome had revealed "all" of the 3rd Message of Fatima, to which Cardinal Ratzinger said: "...In the Third Secret, Our Lady warns that there will be an evil council. And She warned against the changes; She warned agaisnt making changes in the liturgy; changes in the Mass. This is explicitly set forth in the Third Secret". Rome did not and does not believe in the 3rd Secret to be authentic by the imagination of Lucia, furthermore Cardinal Ratzinger said to Father Bollinger that he should understand why they cannot reveal the whole of the 3rd Secret.
Cardinal Mario Luigi Caippi, personal Theologian to three Popes, and who has read the 3rd Secret, stated in his letter to Professor Baumgartner that in the Third Secret it is revealed, among other things, that the great apostasy in the Church will begin (began) at the top.
I cannot think that any priest who says the "Old Mass" will avail themselves of the supposed allowences.
That doesn't mean it won't be done. In fact, there are already abuses.
I think you might enjoy it.I understand that each of these topics might be better suited to a message board post, but I thought they might each be relevant to the post and comments.Thank You
Hope Bishop fellay consacrates hundreds. Of new bishops next. Summer. Would. Be a good time Catholic church. Must. Be. Saved. Its looking. Like St malachy was. Right. About the last. Popes
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