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A meeting between some of the most Liberal Churchmen in the Church (++Schoenborn, ++Koch +Muller) with the former Archbishop of San Francisco, William Cardinal Levada, have expressed a negative judgment.
Regardless of their opinion, it really isn't all that negative, but it should still be pointed out that Liberal "experts" have been ignored in the past by a reigning pontiff, much to the chagrin of public opinion. For example, when Humanae Vitae was promulgated by Paul VI.
Vatican. On Saturday the Priestly Society of St. Pius X will participate in another meeting with the CDF. Supposedly, the Congregation will give its reaction Society of St. Pius X's answer to the Dogmatic Preamble.
kreuz.net...
Here's the pertinent text:
"At the end of today's meeting, moved by concern to avoid an ecclesial rupture of painful and incalculable consequences, the superior general of the Society of St. Pius X was invited to clarify his position in order to be able to heal the existing rift, as is the desire of Pope Benedict XVI".
12 comments:
Sigh. Call me a pessimist, but I can't help but doubt this will turn out well.
But I'm not psychic, of course, so maybe the CDF will come out with a statement supportive of the Society's positions. Or at least toleration as an acceptable Catholic view of the Council; that'd be a start. Guess we'll see.
JMJ
Who cares what the heretics in the "cdf" thinks? Why negotiate with modern Rome. Keep the Faith!
I'm still optimistic. This is just a diversion, since it basically repeats what they said before.
I think this is going to end badly, but that was inevitable, those in Rome mostly don't have the faith
I thought it was interesting that National Public Radio chimed in about it this morning.
I saw an AP story that brought up the old 'Catholic-Jewish relations' crud. The professional crybaby groups may be gearing up for another media blitz.
"And they shall defile the sanctuary of strength and shall take away the continual sacrifice: and they shall place there the abomination unto desolation." (Daniel 11:31)
"And the earth is infected by the inhabitants thereof: because they have transgressed the laws, they changed the ordinance; they have broken the everlasting covenant. Therefore, shall a curse devour the earth, and the inhabitants thereof shall sin: and therefore they that dwell therein shall be mad, and few men shall be left." (Isaias. 24:5-6) [Subtitle: “A remnant shall joyfully praise Him.”]
Please dear brothers and sisters in Christ: Consider yourselves part of the Remnant.
Does the Holy Ghost still reside in the Vatican, after all the events that tend to describe a church run by men who seem to have gone mad?
I admire Bishop Fellay for his courageous persistence.
Monday, April 2, 2012
IF THE SSPX SAYS THEY ACCEPT VATICAN COUNCIL II IN ACCORD WITH THE DOGMA EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS THERE WILL BE A STORM
The Secretary of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith could have to deny Vatican Council II and the Jewish Left could call the Council anti - Semitic.
One of the District Superiors of the Society of St. Pius X (SSPX) could issue a statement observing that it is reported on blogs that the literal interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus is in accord with Vatican Council II (AG 7).
All need Catholic Faith and the baptism of water for salvation (AG 7) and there are no exceptions. There are no known exceptions since those saved in invincible ignorance or with a good conscience (LG 16) etc are known only to God. So they do not contradict the centuries-old literal interpretation of the thrice defined dogma.
So in this sense Vatican Council II is saying outside the church there is no salvation and Jews, Muslims and other non Catholics (Protestants and Orthodox Christians) need to convert into the Catholic Church for salvation ( to avoid Hell).
So the SSPX could welcome Vatican Council II’s position on ecumenism and inter religious dialogue.
All non Catholics are oriented to Hell (AG 7). We do not compel them; we do not force them to enter the Church. We do not have the power to do so. However we do have the religious liberty to tell them that Vatican Council II says they need to convert into the Church, all of them with no known exceptions, to avoid Hell (for salvation).
Imagine the world wide storm this would cause. The SSPX affirming Vatican Council II in this case in accord with the salvation dogma!
But what about Fr. Leonard Feeney?!So what? Whatever be your position on Fr. Leonard Feeney, Vatican Council II still affirms the literal interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
He was excommunicated for holding the literal interpretation? No Magisterial text, including the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 states that he was excommunicated for heresy. And assuming he was - Vatican Council II is still in agreement with the traditional literal interpretation of the dogma.
And if he was excommunicated for heresy, for saying there was no baptism of desire or exception to the dogma, then the cardinals who wrote the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 or Pope Pius XII, made an objective, common sense mistake: the baptism of desire is not known so it cannot be an explicit, exception to the dogma which says everyone needs to convert into the Church. We do not know any one saved with the baptism of desire.
How can the ordinary magisterium of the pope, Pope Pius XII, negate Vatican Council II or the dogma which Pope Pius XII himself called an ‘infallible statement’(Letter of the Holy Office 1949).
All the same Vatican Council II affirms the literal interpretation of the dogma, the infallible statement.
According to the Vatican statement,(March 16) there is the possibility of the SSPX being excommunicated unless they affirm Vatican Council II. The statement has not mentioned the interpretation of Vatican Council II expected. The Vatican kept the doctrinal talks secret.So the SSPX could ‘try the waters out’ affirm the dogma (as they are doing so already) and welcome Vatican Council II as being in agreement with the dogma. Then wait for the Vatican’s response.
This will create a political storm and shake the Establishment which tells the pope what he should believe as a Catholic and what is acceptable to them.-Lionel Andrades
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/04/if-sspx-says-they-accept-vatican.html
Monday, April 2, 2012
VATICAN COUNCIL II SAYS JEWS NEED TO CONVERT, CATHOLICS ARE THE NEW PEOPLE OF GOD BUT REPORT ON SSPX CLAIMS VATICAN COUNCIL II SAYS OTHERWISE
An Associated Press report,Vatican to breakaway traditionalists: not enough by Frances D'Emilio (VCstar.com)says the Society of St. Pius X (SSPX) 'has opposed the Vatican's decades-long outreach to Jews, Muslims and members of other faith. More broadly, it opposes the liberalizing reforms the Vatican enacted in the 1960s.'
However a reading of Vatican Council II’s Nostra Aetate 4 says ‘the Church is the new people of God’.Catholics are the new people of God . The Chosen People.Then Vatican Council II further says that all people, Jews included, need Catholic Faith and the baptism of water for salvation (Ad Gentes 7). Jews need to enter the Church with Catholic Faith and the baptism of water to avoid Hell (for salvation).
So Vatican Council II is still saying like the SSPX that Jews, Muslims and other non Catholics, including Protestants and Orthodox Christians, need to enter the Catholic Church for salvation.
So the so called liberalizing reforms is not supported by any text from Vatican Council II.
Vatican Council II also mentions that there can be non Catholics saved in invincible ignorance, with a good consicence (LG 16), with the ‘seeds of the Word’ etc. We accept this as a possibility just as did the popes and Church Councils of the past. They knew that we do not know any particular case. So they are not an explicit, exception to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus or to Ad Gentes 7 and Lumen Gentium 14, Vatican Council II.
Vatican Council II is in accord with the literal interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus .
Vatican Council II has not changed the teaching of the Catholic Church with respect to other religions as this report on the internet alleges.
The AP report says ‘Jewish groups have expressed concern that the Vatican's overture to the breakaway Catholics could call into question 50 years of progress in Catholic-Jewish relations.’ It is the Jewish Left political position that Vatican Council II has changed church-teaching. They are unable to cite any reference from Vatican Council II.
The report states: ‘A Vatican statement, issued after Friday's meeting, said both Benedict, and Levada's office, studied the Society's response to the papal overture. But the response, delivered to the Vatican in January, "is not sufficient to overcome the doctrinal problems that are at the foundation of the fracture between the Holy See and the Society."
The Vatican has never announced that Vatican Council II states that Catholics are the new people of God and that Jews need to convert to avoid Hell, according to Vatican Council II. Instead the Vatican is building up a reputation of throwing away Catholic doctrine for the sake of peace and security.
Lionel Andrades
continued
http://www.vcstar.com/news/2012/mar/16/bc-eu--vatican-traditionalists-1st-ld-vatican-to/#ixzz1qs1QX2kd
WEDNESDAY, APRIL 11, 2012
There could soon be an 'ecclesial rupture' because the Vatican does not want to say that there can be two interpretations of Vatican Council II.
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/04/there-could-soon-be-ecclesial-rupture.html
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