Edit: a few Saints have profanity in their correspondence. St. Josemaria certainly does. Although this may scandalize some Opus Dei members, we were edified by it. And although he was the first to say the New Mass, he did in fact say it -- probably once -- he was also the first to apply for an Indult.An early collaborator of St. Josemaria Escriva--the first saint to ever celebrate the NOM-- relates the following story: It was in the heady days of the Second Vatican Council, probably after 1965. St. Josemaria Escriva had dutifully learned the New Mass promulgated by Pope Paul VI in the wake of the Second Vatican Council and said it for the first time.
The report is that he fretted in saying it. He found it so exasperating that after putting his vestments away, he hurried to his office to call the Office of Rites in order to request an Indult. Upon describing the Mass to his interlocutor, he said with some vehemence, "what is this shit?"
Shortly after his discussion, he continued saying the Mass he'd always said, having acquired the necessary Indult and we are told he never said the New Mass as part of his private Liturgy again.
"While it may be impossible to verify the details, it is well known that St. Josemaria applied very for an indult very early on, and did not say the NOM in his later life."
I find this absolutely unbelievable. All priests in Opus Dei celebrate the Novus Ordo. I was a member of Opus Dei for 10 years and one of St. Josemaria's main virtues was his obedience to the Magisterium of the Church. He was a faithful son of Vatican II. The burden of proof is on you and I see none.
ReplyDeleteBeing a "Faithful son of Vatican II" does not mean you have to have any sort of loyalty to the Novus Ordo Liturgy. The Novus Ordo Liturgy wasn't even a part of Vatican II.
DeleteYour assertion that you need to say the new Mass to be obedient to Vatican II shows your massive ignorance. Almost everyone in Opus thinks that and they are incorrect. Please go and read Summorum Pontificum.
DeleteI don't find it unbelievable. His obedience to the Church was manifest in not tearing down St-Peter's with his very hands. We're allowed to peacefully disagree with the Magisterium on many things, fyi.
ReplyDelete"We're allowed to peacefully disagree with the Magisterium on many things"
ReplyDeletePerhaps you could enlighten us with some details?
According to canon law we are to accept and obey the ordinary magisterium, as well as the defining Magisterium, in its promulgations. Vat II goes further (Lumen Gentium) and states that it (Magisterium) speaks in the role of Christ.
We may have the right to make known to the authority of the Church any disquiet we have about certain initiatives or teachings; but that is it. It says nothing about 'peacefully disagreeing' - As if we can simply ignore such teaching and simply carry on
The Magisterium only speaks in the role of Christ when it makes infallible pronouncements. It does not speak in the role of Christ when members of the magisterium attempt to dismantle parts of the tradition or teach heresy.
DeleteOur rule of faith which we should adhere do is Scripture and Tradition, with the understanding that the Magisterium is the living organ of tradition.
L. Ott Catholic Dogma says there are degrees of truth from opinion to de fide. So please read that. As well study and pray for me as i you all. As for reported words well i don't swear often. Its recounted St Escriva was brave and tough etc but i cant denigrate the Novus Ordo as real. I studied Maronite Ukraine sister Masses daughtwr in one sense and Wagga St Vianney seminary and commend handbook on line as well as Meschler and PJ Glenn Tour of Summa and St Fran de Sales Catholic Contraversy on Scandal 3 types. A Mary's Jos Jesu bless Saints
DeleteThe German Bishops aren't very quiet or peaceful about their disagreeing and they even expect obedience from their sheep.
ReplyDeleteI was a member of Opus Dei for 10 years and one of St. Josemaria's main virtues was his obedience to the Magisterium of the Church.
ReplyDeleteThere's nothing in this post that would indicate any sort of disobedience on the part of St. Josemaria. Disliking the new Mass, struggling to celebrate it, applying for permission to continue celebrating the older Mass -- these things are not disobedient.
Opus Dei purchased this canonization....as the Legionnaires purchased the cover-up of Maciel.
ReplyDeleteSo you Opie Dopies....take a hike. You disgust most same Catholics.
"We may have the right to make known to the authority of the Church any disquiet we have about certain initiatives or teachings; but that is it. It says nothing about 'peacefully disagreeing' - As if we can simply ignore such teaching and simply carry on"
ReplyDeleteThe New Mass is not a church teaching. It is valid, but the decision to revise the liturgy and promulgate it was a prudential decision, just like allowing more vernacular. A Catholic certainly can disagree with a prudential decision of the Church, even if he is bound to obey it.
Dietrich von Hildebrand has an excellent essay on this distinction with his essay in "The Charitable Anathema" called, "Belief and Obedience: The Critical Difference."
dcs is right. There is nothing even smacking of disobedience in disliking (we aren't talking about outright rejection) the New Order of Mass (it is a practical thing, even if serious, not faith and morals)and asking for PERMISSION to continue using the old.
ReplyDeleteRJV
Suddenly my opinions of St. Josemaria Escriva have been boosted. ^_^
ReplyDeleteWhere did this virulent attack on Opus Dei spring from? From the little I know about them, they appear devout (the ladies, cooks and cleaners, at a college I attended in Spain were the most devout and pleasant people I've met - and they are all Opus Dei) and orthodox. Now, as if from nowhere, they seem to be being attacked from all directions - 'yapping dogs'?
ReplyDeleteOr am I just hanging with the wrong crew?
There's only one commenting here who seems hostile to Opus Dei.
ReplyDeleteOpus night is a cult within the Catholic church. They want to control your most minute activity. Christ did not did that. And that is called liberty. I think the canonization of José María Escriba Albas (his real name) was hasty, and msr. Escriba was obsessed with wealth and nobility. And that is not saintly.
ReplyDeleteCheck Scandal defined in intro of Catholic Contraversy by St Francis de Sales. Commend Wagga St Vianney Seminary Handbook and Meschler 3 ways and Aumann Sp Theol on line with mycatholiclife. PJ GLENN Tour of Summa
DeleteMost legitimate religious orders control the minutiae of your life.
ReplyDeleteThe rest of your suppositions seem as bogus as the first.
"An early collaborator of St. Josemaria..." Who was this? Was this from a personal interview? A published book? Can it be verified? While this anecdote is totally plausible--the fiery Spaniard was known to have a temper (which doesn't necessarily exclude him from sainthood)--without proof it's unfair to characterize him as a potty mouth, which may scandalize the "little ones", or to characterize the valid (if terribly inferior) Novus Ordo as "shit." I wanted to share this interesting post with others to show how yet another saint, besides Padre Pio, rejected the New Mass, but without citations, this is just hearsay.
ReplyDeleteJournalists don't always reveal their sources either, but this blog is generally reliable and it's just as reliable when it comes to this story.
ReplyDeleteSt. Josemaria did have a way with words and that much is documented.
It's also an established fact that he didn't say the New Mass. And as far as describing it as "shit", what Catholic hasn't found the New Mass exasperating. Even some of those who were responsible for it coming into being were exasperated by what it became, like Louis Boyer, Henri de Lubac, Father Ratzinger [when Holy Father as a priest and a bishop], Jaques Maritain and even Father Louis [Thomas Merton] to name but a few but influential figures.
Please the testimonial of the present Prelate of OPus Dei on what really happened:
ReplyDeleteThe current prelate of Opus Dei, Bishop Javier Echevarría Rodríguez has said that Escrivá strove to follow whatever was indicated by the competent authority regarding the celebration of Mass. When the new rites were adapted by the Catholic Church after the Second Vatican Council, Echevarría said that Escrivá "accepted the reform with serenity and obedience". As his prayer was much integrated with the liturgy for the past 40 years, Escrivá found the shift difficult and asked Echevarría to coach him in celebrating the new rites. Although he missed the practices of the old rites, especially some gestures such as the kiss on the paten which showed love, he prohibited his followers to ask for any dispensation for him "out of a spirit of obedience to ecclesiastical norms... He has decided to show his love for the liturgy through the new rite", commented Echevarría. However, when Msgr. Annibale Bugnini, Secretary of the Consilium for the Implementation of the Constitution on the Liturgy, found out about Escrivá's difficulties, he granted Escrivá the possibility of celebrating the Mass using the old rite. Whenever Escrivá celebrated this rite, he did so only in the presence of one Mass server.
Bullshit.
DeleteWhen Vatican II was just starting, St. Josemaria said, "I think the body of Christ is stinking." He was not happy with what he saw going on and only shifted when he saw what was afoot to being an advocate of the Council, even if not wholeheartedly.
DeleteEchevarria wrote that in Memoria del Beato Josemaría Escrivá. Entrevista con Salvador Bernal
ReplyDeleteThat's not what we were told.
ReplyDeleteIt seems that certain people are overeager to preserve something which was a bad idea to begin with.
St. Josemaria was a fiery man and considering what was described by a founding member of the Work himself, it's hard to take this story with any seriousness, particularly the intervention of a man Paul VI at least, believed was a Freemason.
Thanks a lot for this post and this great blog!
ReplyDeletePs. dcs and especially nathanael made my day:-) To many OD:s are appearing like robots.
Escriva's supposed gut reaction and Echevarria's account of actual events are compatible.
ReplyDeleteI wouldn't disbelieve Echevarria just to push my own version of events. He is the closest and most trustworthy eyewitness we have. Escriva could have had a primo primi then obeyed and actually told his followers not to ask for any dispensation.
I find the comments by the first commentor (and the 3rd, I assume the same person) to be particilarly ignorant and offesive to intelligence.
ReplyDelete"It was in the heady days of the Second Vatican Council, probably after 1965. St. Josemaria Escriva had dutifully learned the New Mass promulgated by Pope Paul VI"
ReplyDeleteObviously if there is any truth to the story at all it was after 1965 (and not, therefore, in the days of the Second Vatican Council) and if the story is actually about the NOM, rather than about the interim missals, it was logically after 1969, unless he had a remarkable premonition.
Thank you, Professor Aspergers.
DeletePope Gregory XVI's Mirari Vos (1832): You know what STORMS OF EVIL and TOIL drove Us suddenly into the depths of the sea. If the right hand of God had not given Us strength, We would have drowned as the result of the terrible CONSPIRACY of IMPIOUS MEN.. Now is the time in which the POWERS OF DARKNESS BLOW THROUGH the elect like wheat..they have TRANSGRESSED THE LAWS, they have CHANGED ORDINANCES, they have BROKEN the everlasting COVENANT...this great mass of CALAMNITIES had its inception in the HERETICAL societies and sects in which all that is sacrilegious, infamous, and BLASPHEMOUS has gathered..mass of all FILTH"
ReplyDeleteThe actual story is that he was trying to learn the Novus Ordo rite but was almost blind by that point. He was decided on learning the new rite and had even forbid his closest associates from asking on his behalf. At some point, Blessed Don Alvaro del Portillo ran into Bishop Bugnini (I forget the circumstances). Bishop Bugnini asked him how St. Josemaria was doing with the new liturgy. Blessed Alvaro responded that he was struggling to learn it but had forbid anyone from asking for the indult. Bishop Bugnini responded with something to the effect that he would not have to ask because he was granting the indult on the spot.
ReplyDeleteI should have said "asking for the indult on his behalf."
DeleteAll lies. I've already asked this question on how he reacted to the new rite. This is what really happened: Even though St. Josemaria was granted an Indult with the help of his companion, Alvaro del Portillo, he continued to celebrate the New rite rather than the old. There are several circulating photos of him celebrating the new rite already.
ReplyDeleteI've never seen a picture of him using the Bugninine liturgy, ever, and it's clear in any case that he said it and didn't like it. No real Catholic would like the Bugnini Rite, inmho.
DeleteI find it surreal hearing the names St Josemaria and Bugnini in the same sentence. One was one of the greatest saints of the modern times and one was the greatest enemy of the Church since Luther. Perhaps effective than Luther because he did an inside job.
ReplyDelete