Pope John Paul II " The mystery of salvation is continued and accomplished in the Church, and from
this single source it reaches the whole world. There is no salvation outside the Church. From her
alone there flows the life giving force destined to renew the whole of humanity, directing every human
being to become a part of the Mystical Body of Christ."
Losservatore Romano Oct.12,1981
Pope John Paul II " There is no entering into salvation outside of the Church, just as in the time of
the Deluge there was none outside the Ark which denotes the Church."
Wanderer May 4, 1992
Cf "The Popes Defend the Dogma", here...
Photo, the dude abides...
I was, of course, aware of these statements by John Paul II and others which certainly show that the Holy Ghost is still alive and well in the Church.
ReplyDeleteIf only, alas, the Pope did not contradict those words with his actions, actions which gave every impression of syncretism. These actions needn't be catalogued here again. They are well known. The Holy Gost can protect the Pope from contradiciting in words defined dogma, as we have seen, but apparently that protection does not always occur in Papal actions, or inactions as the case may be.
The problem, of course, comes into play when you point out to your superficial Catholic friend that the Pope has defended this dogma and then your friend brings up Assisi, the visits to the synagogues, etc., etc., etc.
You think he holds the same meaning for the word "Church" as you do. He does not. Think "subsist".
ReplyDeleteSEDEVACANTISTS SLIP ON BOD UNDERSTANDING AND CRITICIZE POPE JOHN PAUL II
ReplyDeleteIt’s a common error on the website of Peter and Michael Dimond. They assume that the Baptism of desire is de facto known to us in the present times. They make this error and criticize the Society of St.Pius X (SSPX). Here they assume that Pope John Paul II was wrong.
Pope John Paul II was correct there are those saved explicitly and others implicitly through Jesus and the Church.
How?
Subject: Hi-EWTN exposed?
Hi,
Who are you ? How can you say all of these things about the church and the Pope and EWTN? It is all so shocking? Why are you saying these things?
Judy
MHFM: … Here’s just one heresy from … John Paul II. This statement denies defined Catholic dogma. Again, this is just one of many:
John Paul II, Redemptoris Missio (#10), Dec. 7, 1990: “The universality of salvation means that it is granted not only to those who explicitly believe in Christ and have entered the Church.”
Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, dogmatic Athanasian Creed, 1439: “Whoever wishes to be saved, needs above all to hold the Catholic faith; unless each one preserves this whole and inviolate, he will without a doubt perish in eternity… But it is necessary for eternal salvation that he faithfully believe also in the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ...”
Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence ,dogmatic Athanasian Creed is saying that everyone with no exception needs to be an explicit member of the Church to go to Heaven.
Pope John Paul too is saying that the ‘universality of salvation is granted to those who explicitly believe in Christ and have entered the Church’. This is the same message as the Council of Florence.
Pope John Paul II also refers to those saved implicitly (baptism of desire, invincible ignorance etc), as taught in Mystici Corporis, Council of Trent, Vatican Council II etc. They also are saved. We must remember that those saved implicitly can only be known to God. They can never de facto known to us as we know the baptism of water. They can never be real and known and so they do not contradict the Council of Florence. Everyone explicitly needs to enter the Church for salvation and there are no known exceptions on earth. If there are any exceptions (invincible ignorance etc) it will be known only to God.
Those saved explicitly refer to de facto cases that we can know of. Those saved implicitly refer to de jure cases that we can only accept in principle and can only know as a concept.
Since one is de facto and the other de jure it does not contradict the Principle on Non Contradiction.
So there is no contradiction between the statements of Pope John Paul II and Pope Eugene IV.
-Lionel Andrades
FR. FRANCESCO GIORDANO AFFIRMS CANTATE DOMINO, COUNCIL OF FLORENCE
ReplyDeleteThe Italian diocesan priest Fr. Francesco Giordano studying at the Holy Cross University, Rome and working for his doctorate on the subject extra ecclesiam nulla salus says he affirms the dogma Cantate Domino, Council of Florence 1441.The ex cathedra dogma says all non Catholics, specifying, Jews, Protestants and Orthodox Christians needing to formally enter the Catholic Church to avoid Hell, which has fire.
One can affirm Cantate Domino which indicates everyone with no exception, de facto needs to enter the Church and, at the same time believe de jure; in principle, a non Catholic can be saved implicitly (baptism of desire etc) and it would be known only to God.
However Fr. Giordano’s position on 1) Fr. Leonard Feeney and 2) Lumen Gentium 16, Vatican Council II is not clear. He seems to contradict the dogma on these two points. Though, he told me at the Church Santa Maria di Nazareth, Boccea, Rome that he affirms Cantate Domino.
Fr. Giordano, who has studied at the University of Chicago, is a young priest fluent in English and Italian. He received his Licentiate from the University of St. Thomas Aquinas, Rome and the subject of his thesis there was outside the church there is no salvation.
Like St. Thomas Aquinas if one uses the defacto-dejure analysis it is possible to hold the ‘rigorist interpretation’ of the dogma and also affirm the baptism of desire (Council of Trent) and so not be considered a heretic. It does not have to be an either-or position i.e. the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus or the baptism of desire.
Fr. Giordano believes Cantate Domino is compatible with Vatican Council II, Catechism of the Catholic Church and other Magisterial documents.
CONTINUED
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.com/2011/06/fr-franccesco-giordano-affirms-cantate.html