In any event, the new translation looks pretty good, at least if we can trust what's been leaked here on page 33 . The "for many" is present in the words of consecration, the word "chalice" is used instead of "cup" and the word "venerable" has been included to refer to Our Lord's hands. This is a beautiful translation. Of course, some people are using this leak to complain about the translation. They are evil and they know who they are.
TAKE THIS, ALL OF YOU, AND EAT OF IT, FOR THIS IS MY BODY, WHICH WILL BE GIVEN UP FOR YOU.
He shows the consecrated host to the people and places it again on the paten, and genuflects in adoration
[...]
He takes the chalice and, holding it slightly raised above the altar, continues:
he took this precious chalice
in his holy and venerable hands,
and once more giving you thanks, he said the blessing
and gave the chalice to his disciples, saying:
He bows slightly
TAKE THIS, ALL OF YOU, AND DRINK FROM IT,
FOR THIS IS THE CHALICE OF MY BLOOD,
THE BLOOD OF THE NEW AND ETERNAL COVENANT,
WHICH WILL BE POURED OUT FOR YOU AND FOR MANY
FOR THE FORGIVENESS OF SINS
DO THIS IN MEMORY OF ME.
All of this is very encouraging and beautiful.
Over on the Pray Tell blog out of St. John's Abbey, they are not happy campers.
ReplyDeletehttp://is.gd/hQHq4
Indeed, didn't mention their name. Of course, they're not going to want to implement this.
ReplyDeleteA step in the right direction. This should really pi$$ off the "Catholic" rad libs. Good!!!
ReplyDeleteIt's BENDS not BOWS.
ReplyDeleteAnd that's not the only weird word in this mess.
Yes "FOR MANY" is in there. So are FOUR "I believes" in the Creed instead of the ONE in the Latin. So are colloquial words like "deal with" "have a life" "bound so tight" "escape from dying" and a gazillion other low-level vocab words just like the old 1974 ICEL, which were NOT in the 2008 version the bishops sent over and the Holy Father approved.
Those who are complaining about the new translation at Pray Tell are CONSERVATIVES, who know what the Bishops approved in 2008: a translation that was ACCURATE, LITERATE and OBEDIENT to the directives of Lliturgiam Authenticam and the Ratio Translationis. Before dumping all over that blog, you might have the honesty and the courtesy to note that they are the ONLY ones who have exposed the violations of the Holy See's own norms that this 2010 Missal has perpetrated. You might also note that Fr. Z doesn't sound too happy. And that Helen Hitchcock is mighty quiet over at Adoremus.
This is because, for anyone who examines and compares 2008 and 2010 - at some level above and beyond FOR MANY - what came back as "The Leaked Missal" of 2010 has MISTRANSLATIONS from the Latin, English constructions that are ungrammatical and unsyntactical, and violations of the norms set forth in LA and the RT.
It's so funny to watch a self-appointed, but clearly uninformed (if not uneducated) blogger praising a Missal that, after a wait of 40 years, has reneged on the Holy See's guidelines. You really should have checked the documentation of all the mistakes (both translations and English) before sticking your big foot into your open mouth!
Dear Anonymous: We're self-appointed as what? Clearly, you haven't had your Wheaties yet.
ReplyDeleteFurthermore, the "Pray, Tell" blog is less than satisfactory on so many levels, I can't imagine why a self-proclaimed "conservative" to defend it.
Finally, we didn't really pronounce positively or negatively on the Missal itself. It's been in the works for a long time and other liberals besides yourself, like Bishop Trautsperson, have been very sour indeed.
If this compromise Missal is indeed unsatisfactory from a "conservative" standpoint, I'd suggest to those alleged conservatives that they go still further and look to the entire Bugninine Missal itself as being problematic and simply return to the Immemorial Mass of All Ages.
Any "conservative" who praises the "Pray, Tell" Blog needs to have their head examined, but that's another story.
No answer, Tancred, to all the FACTS, eh? That this 2010 monstrosity is not faithful to the norms set down by the Holy See for translations: Liturgiam authenticam and the Ratio translationis. That's why true conservatives are against it, and standing by the 2008 version that DID follow the norm and that DID receive the canonical approbation of the bishops. You didn't answer one of my points, though, because you can't.
ReplyDeleteIt says "FOR MANY" and that's could enough for the eFlower people. Of course, the Episcopal liturgy says FOR MANY also.
You don't care anyway. Unlike the Pope, you've rejected the Ordinary Form of the Mass.
I didn't realize this was a sedevacantist website. Thanks for enlightening me!
You started by accusing us of something we weren't guilty of, indicating that we thought without any qualification or hesitation and with certitude that the new translation of the Missal was a good thing. Then you proceeded to accuse us of "being an authority". Now you accuse the site of being Sedevacantist.
ReplyDeleteHope you'll forgive us if we don't bother to answer your claims about the Missal as being problematic, or that the Pray, Tell blog is a suitable source for things liturgical.
It may be that there are individual posters there who are not completely heterodox and are fighting the good fight, but that blog is typically problematic and chalked full of modernism. It's actually difficult to look at, sort of like looking at a catastrophic car accident with multiple fatalities.